Right. The all-embracing social welfare states of Northern Europe have very friendly family policies and income equalization polices also have seen reductions in family size and marriage.This is true across the board, even in societies where the significance of the economic factors at play have been reduced due to government policy.
I think that this might be where you guys are crossing wires. Sangha is pointing to women's desires to form families. You're pointing to their unwillingness. Their desires are dependent on certain conditions being met with regards to male earnings. Their unwillingness to form a family speaks to a set of standards which are not being modified due to societal changes. These women COULD modify their expectations, to accept downward mobility in exchange for a family life, but they CHOOSE not to.That alone doesn't account for the problems Japan is experiencing. Women often pass up on men who actually are making enough money to potentially support a family, simply because they don't view the amount he makes as being "desirable enough" to support the lifestyle they desire, or because they would rather maintain the career they already possess.
Or in the case of Japan, they're bypassing men in favor of an ideal which is slipping out of reach. This is female hypergamy. It's as intrinsic to women as male attraction to female youth & beauty is to men. When unleashed it destablizes society. Society has tried to leash male sexuality and channel it towards monogamy and support of family and that brings about a more stable society but the cost to men, especially the men most desirable to women, is significant. Female solipsism leads to objections regarding the curtailment of female liberty while expecting male liberty to be suppressed for the benefit of the women who do favor a marriage model. These restrictions on liberty are interlinked and they tend to produce more stable societies than when the restrictions are lifted.Women are basically doing exactly what you described with regard polygamous societies. They are passing up everyone else in favor of the most desirable males available.
"Helen Smith, PhD, is a psychologist specializing in forensic issues and menís issues in Knoxville, Tennessee. She holds a PhD from the University of Tennessee and masterís degrees from The New School for Social Research and the City University of New York. She has written The Scarred Heart: Understanding and Identifying Kids Who Kill and was writer and executive producer of Six, a documentary about the murder of a family in Tennessee by teens from Kentucky. She has worked with men (as well as women and children) in her private practice for more than twenty years. She has been on numerous television and radio shows including Montel Williams and has appeared on E! Entertainment, Fox News, Discovery, Womenís Entertainment, Biography, Oxygen and The Learning Channel. Smith has written for numerous publications including the Los Angeles Times, The Christian Science Monitor and The Cleveland Plain Dealer. She occasionally hosts a show at PJTV focusing on menís issues, psychology and politics. She has written on her blog at drhelen.blogspot.com since 2005 on menís rights, menís issues and psychology and is now a columnist and blogger at PJ Media."
It's not feminism that causes the Japanese to look down on married women who work. It's traditional values.
What we're discussing here is a Japanese phenomena knows as "parasite singles" - young adults who are single and still live at home. They are not shut-ins. They go out. They have social lives. They just don't have homes of their own, wives, children or sex.
And there are a lot of them.
What I see Gath arguing is that women's choices in Japan are moderated by a vision of an economic lifestyle. To get married to a man who can't provide that lifestyle would entail a step down, either in terms of their ideal or an actual step-down in their current lifestyle if the man is the only breadwinner. The women COULD have the married lifestyle they claim to want but it would come at an unacceptable cost in terms of income/wealth.
Women being the gatekeepers in the sexual market place, in Japan they're not willing to downgrade and instead find more satisfaction in a single life or in chasing for their ideal.
You're right in regards to married women working would be a way to square the circle, giving them a married life but also addressing the economic issue. The problem here is that, as we saw in the West, this is not a static model. The entry of women into the workforce has depressed male wages in the US and it'll do the same in Japan, thus fueling a feedback loop. Women who want to remain as housewives are dependent on their husband's incomes. As more women enter the workforce that puts downward pressure on male incomes, thus leading the households on the margin to send the wife out to work, which puts even more downward pressure on male income, thus moving the margin ever inward. That's the thing with feedback loops, when they start then buckle up, everyone is in for a wild ride.
Been thinking on this.
IF I was going to remarry (improbable, but miracles happen), I would almost definitely marry an American woman.
I've known a lot of people who married otherwise who said they had severe, even marriage-ending problems with culture clash. Marriage is hard enough as it is; adding that two people come from drastically different cultures with different norms, customs, expectations, requirements, manners, and reactions to common things, probably won't really help anything.
Not to mention most of those brides-from-poor-countries will apparently scam you right out of your home and bank account in many cases. Hell I had a buddy married for 20-some years, when he tried to curtail his Asian wife's spending habits she cleaned him out and disappeared.
Fiddling While Rome Burns
Carthago Delenda Est
"I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."