View Poll Results: Men: Would you marry an American Woman?

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  • Yes

    72 70.59%
  • No

    23 22.55%
  • Does not apply to me.

    7 6.86%
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Thread: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?[W:771]

  1. #431
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I have posted extensive evidence so if you haven't seen it, it is because you have once again ignored it.

    And you have posted no evidence to support your claim that the japanese do not want to be burdened with the expectations of traditional marriage. I have posted evidence that they want a traditional marriage (90% want it) but that their economic situation makes those traditional values unrealistic.

    Even you have described the Japanese women who want to marry a man who can be the sole provider as having "unrealistic expectations"
    If anyone doesnt want to be burdened with the traditional expectations of marriage and provider, I've only read of the extreme conditions the men are going to, or ending up in. By choice tho. The ones that live in their bedrooms of their parents' homes and never leave and spend all their time on the Internet...totally homebound, no jobs, unable to (implied) deal with the very real and strict pressures of the Japanese business world. And they have a very high suicide rate too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  2. #432
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    I'm not going to deny that culture plays a role here.

    However, the principles at play are ultimately the same either way regardless. Women in industrialized societies where ideas like "feminism" and wide spread materialism have taken hold, simply do not seem to have much of an interest in marriage, family, or childrearing.
    There is no disputing this. You are correct. Family sizes have been decreasing over time. It is generally the wife, rather than the husband, who determines the number of children the couple are going to have. The rise of childless couples is also increasing across the industrialized world.

    This is true across the board, even in societies where the significance of the economic factors at play have been reduced due to government policy.
    Right. The all-embracing social welfare states of Northern Europe have very friendly family policies and income equalization polices also have seen reductions in family size and marriage.

    That alone doesn't account for the problems Japan is experiencing. Women often pass up on men who actually are making enough money to potentially support a family, simply because they don't view the amount he makes as being "desirable enough" to support the lifestyle they desire, or because they would rather maintain the career they already possess.
    I think that this might be where you guys are crossing wires. Sangha is pointing to women's desires to form families. You're pointing to their unwillingness. Their desires are dependent on certain conditions being met with regards to male earnings. Their unwillingness to form a family speaks to a set of standards which are not being modified due to societal changes. These women COULD modify their expectations, to accept downward mobility in exchange for a family life, but they CHOOSE not to.

    Women are basically doing exactly what you described with regard polygamous societies. They are passing up everyone else in favor of the most desirable males available.
    Or in the case of Japan, they're bypassing men in favor of an ideal which is slipping out of reach. This is female hypergamy. It's as intrinsic to women as male attraction to female youth & beauty is to men. When unleashed it destablizes society. Society has tried to leash male sexuality and channel it towards monogamy and support of family and that brings about a more stable society but the cost to men, especially the men most desirable to women, is significant. Female solipsism leads to objections regarding the curtailment of female liberty while expecting male liberty to be suppressed for the benefit of the women who do favor a marriage model. These restrictions on liberty are interlinked and they tend to produce more stable societies than when the restrictions are lifted.

  3. #433
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Btw, do you know what a psychologist does? Somehow I doubt it. Go ahead and google it though, since you have already exposed your ignorance once again.
    Are you saying that she didnt do any interviewing in all these examples? Really?

    "Helen Smith, PhD, is a psychologist specializing in forensic issues and menís issues in Knoxville, Tennessee. She holds a PhD from the University of Tennessee and masterís degrees from The New School for Social Research and the City University of New York. She has written The Scarred Heart: Understanding and Identifying Kids Who Kill and was writer and executive producer of Six, a documentary about the murder of a family in Tennessee by teens from Kentucky. She has worked with men (as well as women and children) in her private practice for more than twenty years. She has been on numerous television and radio shows including Montel Williams and has appeared on E! Entertainment, Fox News, Discovery, Womenís Entertainment, Biography, Oxygen and The Learning Channel. Smith has written for numerous publications including the Los Angeles Times, The Christian Science Monitor and The Cleveland Plain Dealer. She occasionally hosts a show at PJTV focusing on menís issues, psychology and politics. She has written on her blog at drhelen.blogspot.com since 2005 on menís rights, menís issues and psychology and is now a columnist and blogger at PJ Media."
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  4. #434
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    I'm not going to deny that culture plays a role here.

    However, the principles at play are ultimately the same either way regardless. Women in industrialized societies where ideas like "feminism" and wide spread materialism have taken hold, simply do not seem to have much of an interest in marriage, family, or childrearing.

    This is true across the board, even in societies where the significance of the economic factors at play have been reduced due to government policy.
    No, it is not true in Japan. As I have proven, single Japanese have a lot of interest in marriage and creating a family. And contrary to your claims about how feminism is at fault, in Japan the problem is that married women are expected to not work, making it difficult if not impossible for young people to have a two-income family. The one income family is unrealistic (because most Japanese men do not make enough) and the two income family is unrealistic (because the Japanese look down on married women who work, so they don't hire married women).

    It's not feminism that causes the Japanese to look down on married women who work. It's traditional values.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  5. #435
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    If anyone doesnt want to be burdened with the traditional expectations of marriage and provider, I've only read of the extreme conditions the men are going to, or ending up in. By choice tho. The ones that live in their bedrooms of their parents' homes and never leave and spend all their time on the Internet...totally homebound, no jobs, unable to (implied) deal with the very real and strict pressures of the Japanese business world. And they have a very high suicide rate too.
    You are referring to "shut-ins" and while their # is increasing, they are still such a small portion of the population to have any significant effect on the birth rates.

    What we're discussing here is a Japanese phenomena knows as "parasite singles" - young adults who are single and still live at home. They are not shut-ins. They go out. They have social lives. They just don't have homes of their own, wives, children or sex.

    And there are a lot of them.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  6. #436
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I'm glad that you don't see much of that around you. Sadly, however, the growth of loser men fulfilling low expectations and therefore seeming to be unsuitable matches for high-achieving women is a real trend in our society today. No one (generally) sets out to copy entertainment, but the value systems and social assumptions that we surround ourselves with and ingest shape our behavior.
    Do you think it's an age or maturity thing tho? I see lots of younger couples...and I wouldnt want to be one today, lol. But I think everyone matures..in society and in relationships, even tho they dont necessarily survive (the relationships)...and dont remain the same. (Of course some people never grow up true). Dont younger under-achievers and rebels often eventually end up becoming part of the Establishment whether they like it or not?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  7. #437
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    You are referring to "shut-ins" and while their # is increasing, they are still such a small portion of the population to have any significant effect on the birth rates.

    What we're discussing here is a Japanese phenomena knows as "parasite singles" - young adults who are single and still live at home. They are not shut-ins. They go out. They have social lives. They just don't have homes of their own, wives, children or sex.

    And there are a lot of them.

    Ah....is this not a parental issue then? I'm sure it's more complex...it was in the articles I just read here...but hey...who's enabling them?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  8. #438
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    That's a whole lot closer to what I've been saying than what Gath has been arguing.

    Gath believes that the problem is, at it's root, caused by various societies abandoning their traditional values. However, the problem in Japan is the exact opposite of that. People aren't remaining single because they value their career over family. They are remaining single because they are stubbornly clinging to the traditional value that the man should be the provider even though their economy no longer makes that possible.

    In addition, the problem is exacerbated because their employers continue to adhere to the traditional value of undervaluing the women workers, particularly if they are married. This makes becoming a two-income family nearly impossible as a practical matter. In addition, there's the cultural reality that there is a social stigma attached to married women who work.

    As a result, the majority can not marry and depend solely on the man's income, nor can they marry and depend on them both having an adequate income. It's a Catch-22 situation caused by their clinging to traditional values. In order to change, they need to change. They must accept that married women won't and can not be nothing more than homemakers and that a two-income family model is acceptable.
    I feel like a damn marriage counselor here.

    What I see Gath arguing is that women's choices in Japan are moderated by a vision of an economic lifestyle. To get married to a man who can't provide that lifestyle would entail a step down, either in terms of their ideal or an actual step-down in their current lifestyle if the man is the only breadwinner. The women COULD have the married lifestyle they claim to want but it would come at an unacceptable cost in terms of income/wealth.

    Women being the gatekeepers in the sexual market place, in Japan they're not willing to downgrade and instead find more satisfaction in a single life or in chasing for their ideal.

    You're right in regards to married women working would be a way to square the circle, giving them a married life but also addressing the economic issue. The problem here is that, as we saw in the West, this is not a static model. The entry of women into the workforce has depressed male wages in the US and it'll do the same in Japan, thus fueling a feedback loop. Women who want to remain as housewives are dependent on their husband's incomes. As more women enter the workforce that puts downward pressure on male incomes, thus leading the households on the margin to send the wife out to work, which puts even more downward pressure on male income, thus moving the margin ever inward. That's the thing with feedback loops, when they start then buckle up, everyone is in for a wild ride.

  9. #439
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Been thinking on this.


    IF I was going to remarry (improbable, but miracles happen), I would almost definitely marry an American woman.


    I've known a lot of people who married otherwise who said they had severe, even marriage-ending problems with culture clash. Marriage is hard enough as it is; adding that two people come from drastically different cultures with different norms, customs, expectations, requirements, manners, and reactions to common things, probably won't really help anything.

    Not to mention most of those brides-from-poor-countries will apparently scam you right out of your home and bank account in many cases. Hell I had a buddy married for 20-some years, when he tried to curtail his Asian wife's spending habits she cleaned him out and disappeared.

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  10. #440
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Are you saying that she didnt do any interviewing in all these examples? Really?

    "Helen Smith, PhD, is a psychologist specializing in forensic issues and men’s issues in Knoxville, Tennessee. She holds a PhD from the University of Tennessee and master’s degrees from The New School for Social Research and the City University of New York. She has written The Scarred Heart: Understanding and Identifying Kids Who Kill and was writer and executive producer of Six, a documentary about the murder of a family in Tennessee by teens from Kentucky. She has worked with men (as well as women and children) in her private practice for more than twenty years. She has been on numerous television and radio shows including Montel Williams and has appeared on E! Entertainment, Fox News, Discovery, Women’s Entertainment, Biography, Oxygen and The Learning Channel. Smith has written for numerous publications including the Los Angeles Times, The Christian Science Monitor and The Cleveland Plain Dealer. She occasionally hosts a show at PJTV focusing on men’s issues, psychology and politics. She has written on her blog at drhelen.blogspot.com since 2005 on men’s rights, men’s issues and psychology and is now a columnist and blogger at PJ Media."
    Did you seriously just quote the Amazon page to use against me? lol. Why don't you buy the book, read it, and come back to talk. Until then, I have nothing left to say to you.

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