View Poll Results: Men: Would you marry an American Woman?

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  • Yes

    72 70.59%
  • No

    23 22.55%
  • Does not apply to me.

    7 6.86%
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Thread: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?[W:771]

  1. #411
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Plenty of men wish they could consider women submissive and inferior to them....that's not news. I could name a couple in this thread that seem exactly like that. Some men 'need' that. I didnt need the blurb of the book to know that.
    Which wasn't mentioned at all in the book in the OP by someone that knows more about it than someone just making conclusions of things out of their ass.

    And as for sexist....I am more than happy to come down on my sisters anytime...and I do. It's just not a topic in this thread. I will not defend the ones that make us all look bad and speak out about it here AND in real life. You're just too biased to have noticed. No worries, I dont really care.
    You don't even know what you're defending against since you never even bothered to learn about the topic. You're just running around in the dark in this thread, sorry.

  2. #412
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I was never outraged at all. You're a sexist that just so happens to like making sexist conclusions on the contents of books you never read. Both are pretty common.
    OMG, that is the worst Internet insult EVER! I am just destroyed, emotionally, to have been accused of, wait, wut? Making sexist conclusions on the contents of books I've never read! Oh the horror!

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    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
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  3. #413
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    They're avoiding marriage and procreation in favor of money grubbing self-centeredness.

    They're basically par for the course.

    Their reaction has just been a bit more extreme than most.
    Pay attention and focus!

    The comment you are responding to was in response to your claim that the Japanese despise sex and that we are heading in the same direction.

    So far you have not posted any evidence that any modern society other than Japan "despises sex". I'll ask you once again to please name these modern societies where the young adults despise sex.


    "Promiscuous sex" is neither here nor there. You're missing the point.

    Screwing around outside of relationships is really no more desirable than simply avoiding them entirely. In some ways, the latter might actually be preferable, simply because it is less liable to result in socially burdensome unwanted pregnancies or STDs.
    Again pay attention and focus!!

    You argued that we are headed in the same direction as Japan, where the young adults despise sex. This new claim of yours directly contradicts your earlier claims (in other threads) that the US is awash in promiscuous sex. So which is it? Is the US engaging in too much promiscuous sex, or is our problem that we're not having any sex?




    Did I say they were?
    I pointed out that tradition does not support people marrying mates that were unsuitable because they were not capable of fulfilling their traditional role (as a provider). You responded that poor people have been marrying other poor people for ages. If the Japanese are not poor, then why did you mention how poor people have a tradition of marrying other poor people?




    Then they should be getting married if they're being honest about it being what they truly desire.
    Then you should be married if you're being honest about how you think marriage is what people your age should be doing.


    And? What do think this shows?
    It shows that the women you claim are unwilling to give up their careers in order to get married do not even have careers. If a career was becoming more and more important to Japanese women then their participation in the workforce would be increasing, not decreasing.
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  4. #414
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Men are already fully aware of that. Look how many dump their wives for younger models?

    It's kind of silly to call women shallow because they want successful men when the same generalization works out that men only care about how women look. Two sides of the same coin. I see people only calling out the women on it in this threat tho (not you.)
    There you go again. Women wanting successful men isn't shallow, but part of their nature.

  5. #415
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Which wasn't mentioned at all in the book in the OP by someone that knows more about it than someone just making conclusions of things out of their ass.



    You don't even know what you're defending against since you never even bothered to learn about the topic. You're just running around in the dark in this thread, sorry.

    You really have a hard on for that book dude. It barely even crossed my mind. so little of my posts were based on it. What, were you interviewed in it or something?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  6. #416
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    There you go again. Women wanting successful men isn't shallow, but part of their nature.
    Er I was quoting what others have written in the thread. And the term 'golddigger' has come up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  7. #417
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    You really have a hard on for that book dude. It barely even crossed my mind. so little of my posts were based on it. What, were you interviewed in it or something?
    No, the OP is about the book. This entire thread SHOULD be at least based on it. No one in this thread appears to be qualified to talk of it though.

  8. #418
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    And? How does this differ significantly from the rest of the industrialized world?
    Because Japan, as you admit, is an extreme case. But then, it's you have been arguing that it's selfishness driving the marriage and birth rate down. It turns out that their decisions have harsh economic realities driving their choices.
    Japan is an extreme case. I'll freely admit that. However, the pressures at play are very similar to what we have in the United States as well.
    Yes, the U.S. has economic pressure, but not to the degree the Japanese do nor the cultural pressures they live under which make it considerably less likely single people here will give up sex.

    Even in our own country, more and more women are avoiding family and marriage in general because they believe the trade off simply isn't worth it. Motherhood is viewed as being a troublesome burden more than a blessing in modern culture; for many of the same reasons the article put forward (financial pressure, the stress of raising a family and working, ecta).

    Frankly, when you look at the numbers, we're really not doing all that much better than Japan anyway.

    Knocked Up and Knocked Down: Why America's widening fertility class divide is a problem.

    Is having kids now a 'social failure'?

    The Middle Class fertility rate in the United States is only 1.6, weeeeelll below anything even remotely resembling replacement levels.
    You mean a specific segment of the population are not having children at replacement level. The wealthy and middle class.
    Furthermore, more "progressive" nations like Sweden, which give their women more benefits to offset the challenges of childrearing, really fare no better.

    Sweden Total fertility rate

    Economics clearly are not the major driving force in this change so much as general attitudes and the degradation of the traditional gender dynamic. Women simply don't seem to view marriage and family as being the priority that they once did.


    They are far more concerned with material advancement.
    We are back to my original reply to you:

    What is wrong with them putting other priorities first? Men do this. Why is it that women automatically need to sacrifice their lives to be brood mares? Some women don't have a maternal instinct. God bless them for knowing themselves enough not to put kids through the agony of being raised by a mother who didn't really want them.
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    This is the important stuff. We canít get lost in discrimination. We canít get lost in B.S. We canít get lost tearing each other down. I want to make a point here that no matter what you look like, where you come from, how you worship, who you love, how you identify, and yeah, how you run, that if you have good public policy ideas, if you are well qualified for office, bring those ideas to the table, because this is your America, too. This is our commonwealth of Virginia, too.
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  9. #419
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Er I was quoting what others have written in the thread. And the term 'golddigger' has come up.
    That is an entirely different matter entirely. Jesus.

  10. #420
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    What sangha is pointing out is that there is not a deterministic path here. There is cultural moderation on the signal and response.

    Japanese culture is very honor focused. This by itself is going to distort the response to the signal. The signal in Japan is tied to the economy - fewer jobs for salarymen means fewer able to live the salaryman ideal. I take sangha's point to be that America doesn't have to contend with those cultural vectors.

    Here's what I see going on and maybe this can reconcile the two viewpoints you guys are advancing. The rise of women's liberation in the US occurred much earlier than in Japan and our culture has been less rigid in response to every change that has happened. What we're seeing in Japan looks like what we're seeing in the US but the root causes differ. In Japan this issue is being driven by labor market changes rippling out into the sexual market place. In the US, the primary driver of this phenomenon is the advance of feminism and this is rippling out into the sexual market place. Feminism is taking root in Japan and the changes there are following the trajectory pioneered in the West, but that trajectory is shallower in effect and not as far advanced, so the effect size in Japan, while still present, is small and it's really labor market changes driving the issue there.
    I'm not going to deny that culture plays a role here.

    However, the principles at play are ultimately the same either way regardless. Women in industrialized societies where ideas like "feminism" and wide spread materialism have taken hold, simply do not seem to have much of an interest in marriage, family, or childrearing.

    This is true across the board, even in societies where the significance of the economic factors at play have been reduced due to government policy.

    In Japan, it appears that a lot of women are willing to give up their careers but they need a salaryman in their life to make that happen. The guys who can't be salarymen are withdrawing from having to face what they see as failure and the women are not lowering their expectations.
    That alone doesn't account for the problems Japan is experiencing. Women often pass up on men who actually are making enough money to potentially support a family, simply because they don't view the amount he makes as being "desirable enough" to support the lifestyle they desire, or because they would rather maintain the career they already possess.

    By and large, their inclination towards celibacy is not out of necessity, but personal preference.

    Women are basically doing exactly what you described with regard polygamous societies. They are passing up everyone else in favor of the most desirable males available. As there aren't very male top tier males available, most of them are simply ending up with no companionship at all, which has lead lower tier males to stop trying to pursue them entirely.

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