View Poll Results: Men: Would you marry an American Woman?

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  • Yes

    72 70.59%
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    23 22.55%
  • Does not apply to me.

    7 6.86%
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Thread: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?[W:771]

  1. #381
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    We are all ultimately only animals responding to external stimuli.
    What sangha is pointing out is that there is not a deterministic path here. There is cultural moderation on the signal and response.

    Japanese culture is very honor focused. This by itself is going to distort the response to the signal. The signal in Japan is tied to the economy - fewer jobs for salarymen means fewer able to live the salaryman ideal. I take sangha's point to be that America doesn't have to contend with those cultural vectors.

    If it can happen to them, it could happen to us. In some ways, we are trending in that direction already with the rise of internet porn and the "failure to launch" culture.
    Here's what I see going on and maybe this can reconcile the two viewpoints you guys are advancing. The rise of women's liberation in the US occurred much earlier than in Japan and our culture has been less rigid in response to every change that has happened. What we're seeing in Japan looks like what we're seeing in the US but the root causes differ. In Japan this issue is being driven by labor market changes rippling out into the sexual market place. In the US, the primary driver of this phenomenon is the advance of feminism and this is rippling out into the sexual market place. Feminism is taking root in Japan and the changes there are following the trajectory pioneered in the West, but that trajectory is shallower in effect and not as far advanced, so the effect size in Japan, while still present, is small and it's really labor market changes driving the issue there.

    A lot of women simply don't want to give up their careers for the hassle of raising a family.
    In Japan, it appears that a lot of women are willing to give up their careers but they need a salaryman in their life to make that happen. The guys who can't be salarymen are withdrawing from having to face what they see as failure and the women are not lowering their expectations.

  2. #382
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    Huh? You cannot compare working, childless adults to children working a paper route. Especially when single, childless people typically earn more and pay more taxes because they don't have 2.5 deductions to take.
    The point here is to rebut your position that simply paying for school taxes means that they've paid their way. Making a contribution doesn't equal paying your way. A child with a paper route contributes to the family's finances but that doesn't mean that he's not still a financial cost for the family.

  3. #383
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    I would suggest there are very few decent American women left out there to marry. It took me almost 25 years of searching to find one myself, and I ended up finding a wonderful hispanic woman. I hadn't found a caucasian woman who was even an option in the last 10-12 years. Some of us have certain expectations about what a wife is supposed to be and we're just not willing to compromise on those ideals.


    I think you have to consider that, like many other things (such as your description of freedom below), your 'definition' of a decent woman is fairly unrealistic and few women would wish to fulfill it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger
    Not at all. Freedom is for those who understand it must be constrained within boundaries and who have proven an ability and willingness to stay within them. It's not a wide open boundary, but there is some room to move.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  4. #384
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    You claimed that "Most "modern" societies are failing in the same way Japan is."

    Japan is failing, at least in part, because their singles are sexually inactive. Please prove your claim is correct by identifying those modern nations where singles are sexually inactive.
    Unfruitful sexual activity is no different than not having sex at all. Your argument fails.

    The simple fact of the matter is that virtually all "modern" industrialized nations are having problems relating to low birth rates, low marriage rates, and crumbling gender relations. That is the "failure" to which I alluded, not anything specifically having to do with sex.

    Japan simply happens to be the most extreme case. It is not, however; necessarily inconceivable that the same could happen here.

    IOW, you have chosen to put your material comfort above conforming to traditional gender roles. Just more evidence that those traditional values are a failure and your hypocrisy in criticizing society for not adhering to those traditions while refusing to adhere to those traditions yourself.
    Who says I'm not adhering to them? The simple fact of the matter is that I'm broke and have nothing to offer at the time being. Women would be wise to avoid me, and I them until my circumstances improve.

    Most Japanese men are not in my situation, but women are refusing to enter into relationships with them anyway; preferring to remain single to having to deal with the "hassle" of a man unless he happens to be wealthy in a manner which greatly exceeds the national average.

  5. #385
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I had posted it in an earlier thread where Gath ignored it. I have reposted it.



    Japanese, and then claiming that Americans are doing the same thing to a lesser degree. However, as my links show, the Japanese culture is quite different.

    I bet you're stunned to learn that different cultures are different!



    Yep, that's his argument. Hilarious, ain't it.
    I'll go find the link, thanks!

    Indeed, I read most of that article he linked. The differences in culture are very great and so it's not a good comparison.

    I cannot believe human beings would forgo intimacy, except that technology in Japan is enabling that. They escape to a private world because they have no livable privacy.
    I don't attack my constituents. Bob is my constituent now.
    This is the important stuff. We canít get lost in discrimination. We canít get lost in B.S. We canít get lost tearing each other down. I want to make a point here that no matter what you look like, where you come from, how you worship, who you love, how you identify, and yeah, how you run, that if you have good public policy ideas, if you are well qualified for office, bring those ideas to the table, because this is your America, too. This is our commonwealth of Virginia, too.
    Danica Roem - The nation's first openly transgender person elected to serve in a U.S. state legislature.

  6. #386
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Johnson View Post
    Good for you.



    Yet you stated it was "learning by example." Lets not play semantics here.



    Now you're putting words in my mouth. I never said that.



    By getting sodomized in divorce court?
    Boy, this one's a gift! LOL

    Let's see: That's right....learning by example. I never said it was right, but I find it amusing that men are hypocritical enough to complain when women do the same things.

    And understanding the definition of the words "seem" and "imply" would probably help you see that I was not putting words in your mouth but giving you my interpretation of your post.

    As for the last, bitter much? And nothing like conveniently ignoring millenia of 'marital rape,' being treated like and sold as property, and being legally beaten in many societies.

    If you wish to focus on the legal, how about the hundreds of yrs where women could be locked away in asylums at the word of their husband, own no property of their own, or retain custody of their own children?

    LOL....good luck with that angle!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  7. #387
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    The point here is to rebut your position that simply paying for school taxes means that they've paid their way. Making a contribution doesn't equal paying your way. A child with a paper route contributes to the family's finances but that doesn't mean that he's not still a financial cost for the family.
    Ridiculous. I already pointed out, they pay taxes at a higher rate than people with kids. Taxes which go to support services families use. The point at which they tip the scale is in retirement when they haven't produced workers to take their place, but in the meantime, they have paid at a greater rate into the tax system.
    I don't attack my constituents. Bob is my constituent now.
    This is the important stuff. We canít get lost in discrimination. We canít get lost in B.S. We canít get lost tearing each other down. I want to make a point here that no matter what you look like, where you come from, how you worship, who you love, how you identify, and yeah, how you run, that if you have good public policy ideas, if you are well qualified for office, bring those ideas to the table, because this is your America, too. This is our commonwealth of Virginia, too.
    Danica Roem - The nation's first openly transgender person elected to serve in a U.S. state legislature.

  8. #388
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I

    It is women who usually complain about their 'image' through the media whereas men are generally secure and don't really care about that. This is an observation I'm making and not a complaint. Perhaps your attitude might change if the butt was usually women, or you might want to watch more closely..
    I'm pretty sure that this thread is an indication that that is not especially true
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  9. #389
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    I don't think the bolded is it at all. I think that men want someone who not only loves them, but likes them as well, and is willing to work at having a relationship, rather than running out the door at the first sign of trouble. My experience and observation over the past 35-40 years is that women are usually the party in a marriage that doesn't have what it takes to make it last. They give up easily, and they don't want to accept men as they are, but they do expect men to accept them as they are. It's very mixed signals.
    Interesting. I find that it's pretty equal in terms of one or the other just not being content anymore. Women tend to become more independent and leave. Men tend to be 'comfortable' where they are and then just have affairs. Just from what I've seen and read tho.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  10. #390
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    Ridiculous. I already pointed out, they pay taxes at a higher rate than people with kids. Taxes which go to support services families use. The point at which they tip the scale is in retirement when they haven't produced workers to take their place, but in the meantime, they have paid at a greater rate into the tax system.
    Did you just try to quantify procreation in fiscal terms?

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