View Poll Results: Men: Would you marry an American Woman?

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  • Yes

    72 70.59%
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    23 22.55%
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Thread: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?[W:771]

  1. #271
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    You're wrong, it's complex. This is not some simple static model here, we're dealing with dynamic forces in play. Move one piece and this affects another piece, which in turn affects another piece. Lot's of unforeseen consequences coming out in the wash.

    .
    True. But in the US, there's no way to change the natural progression that goes along with recognizing women as equal without the backwards steps of restricting us and our rights. Which would be completely unConstitutional.

    So you cannot restrict women. Society has to adapt. Society and culture will adapt. And that involved swings and changes...that is inevitable. I dont know why this change is viewed so negatively. I only see it as was already posted by someone else in the thread...that men no longer have the same political and financial control over women. Who is to say that was ever 'right?'

    So complaints in this department, like the OP post seems to be...seem useless to me. Societies adapt and change all the time. Women still appreciate "real men." Be one and you'll see
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  2. #272
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    You're wrong, it's complex. This is not some simple static model here, we're dealing with dynamic forces in play. Move one piece and this affects another piece, which in turn affects another piece. Lot's of unforeseen consequences coming out in the wash.



    As I noted, this depend on how you define "better." If Equality creates more opportunity but also creates dissatisfaction with social or married life, then only those who value opportunity (in whichever form it takes) are going to say that the deal is better. Those who get shortchanged in life satisfaction are going to say that matters are worse despite having the equality to pursue more opportunities.
    I am not going to debate this because it should be incredibly simple...equal opportunities in life for women is always...ALWAYS a good thing.

    Just as equal opportunity for racial minorities is ALWAYS a good thing. And so on.

    If a few chauvinistic men (not that I am calling you or the OP author that...I do not know) get left behind because women do not worship them like they used to...tough. Then I guess it's time they got fit, treated women with more respect, looked themselves a bit more and became more 'desirable'.

    Yes, the days of fat, rude slobs who make decent money always being able to find a woman are quickly fading...and a good thing for society too.
    Last edited by DA60; 02-25-14 at 04:57 AM.

  3. #273
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Men have a higher suicide rate post-divorce than do women. A significant factor explaining this is that men, usually, have a far more constrained social-emotional network than women. This backtracks into marriage - a greater part of a man's emotional life is tied to his wife than the reverse. Female friendships have a different nature than male friendships, so getting married brings something to a man's life that he has a difficult time replicating via friendships.
    Wow, that so does not seem relevant to what you quoted. Or only tangential. If men 'need' women like that...I dont think this has changed (in the context you posted) because of any recent changes in women's attitudes in the US...except that we have more freedom to leave a relationship.
    Last edited by Lursa; 02-25-14 at 04:58 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  4. #274
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Funny, I see the bold exactly the same...only for men. I, for the life of me, do not understand why men marry so easily and so often. There seems like less upside for them unless they are ready to have kids. This is just IMO tho. And I chalk it up to those familial and social pressures which are huge. So? Have some balls! Dont get married until you really want to. Dont be pressured into by women or your parents.

    I know...I've been there. As a Christian female with Christian parents and is a part of mainstream American society. Who had to hear for decades...why arent you two getting married? Why arent you having kids?
    I was fortunate, in a way. I came from an immediate family with 5 divorces in it before I was 25...so I was under NO pressure to either get married or to have children...quite the opposite actually.

  5. #275
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    What conversation? No one is even interested in talking about the cultural problem the feminist movement caused.
    That comment wasn't directed at you.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    True. But in the US, there's no way to change the natural progression that goes along with recognizing women as equal without the backwards steps of restricting us and our rights. Which would be completely unConstitutional.
    What we're experiencing is not natural. My turn to laugh HA HA HA. Okay, done laughing. This social revolution is being driven and shaped by conscious decisions and informed by philosophy. What can be done, can be undone, or can be done in a different fashion.

    As to Constitutionality, the Constitution is simply what judges say it is. Times changes and so do Constitutional issues.

    So you cannot restrict women. Society has to adapt. Society and culture will adapt.
    History is chock full of societies which died. There is no WILL ADAPT in play here. Maybe we can adapt, maybe we can't. I doubt we can because we're not dealing with issues which are entirely social constructions. When the social constructions we concoct with our minds and philosophies get too far out of whack with human nature, then the house of cards either falls or has to be unbuilt/rebuilt.

    I only see it as was already posted by someone else in the thread...that men no longer have the same political and financial control over women. Who is to say that was ever 'right?'
    We'll see if that was right. Will women adapt to preferring men who they don't admire if we continue to see the sex disparity in college admissions and subsequent careers? We already see from the social science literature that high earning women tend to divorce their lower earning husbands at a higher rate than what we see from control relationships. The power imbalance in those marriages leads to, generally speaking, women not being as satisfied with the marriage. This is female hypergamy. Wanting to marry up.

    How's that old saying go? "Hey baby, you can have it all." Something like that. That's not likely to be true. There are always opportunity costs when we make choices. I can't see this being an exception.
    Last edited by RiverDad; 02-25-14 at 05:10 AM.

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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    OK. It's late and I'm ready for bed. So maybe this is completely off track here but is it possible that men no longer feel like competing for women? Or today feel like they have to work harder to get one? They feel like they are entitled to a woman? And one that will accept them as 'the head of the house?' Hmmmmmm.

    (I am not presuming that it's a competitive thing....it's just a theory, lol)

    No flames please. Not meaning offense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  8. #278
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    What we're experiencing is not natural. My turn to laugh HA HA HA. Okay, done laughing. This social revolution is being driven and shaped by conscious decisions and informed by philosophy. What can be done, can be undone, or can be done in a different fashion.

    As to Constitutionality, the Constitution is simply what judges say it is. Times changes and so do Constitutional issues.



    History is chock full of societies which died. There is no WILL ADAPT in play here. Maybe we can adapt, maybe we can't. I doubt we can because we're not dealing with issues which are entirely social constructions. When the social constructions we concoct with our minds and philosophies get too far out of whack with human nature, then the house of cards either falls or has to be unbuilt/rebuilt.



    We'll see if that was right. Will women adapt to preferring men who they don't admire if we continue to see the sex disparity in college admissions and subsequent careers? We already see from the social science literature that high earning women tend to divorce their lower earning husbands at a higher rate than what we see from control relationships. The power imbalance in those marriages leads to, generally speaking, women not being as satisfied with the marriage. This is female hypergamy. Wanting to marry up.

    How's that old saying go? "Hey baby, you can have it all." Something like that. That's not likely to be true. There are always opportunity costs when we make choices. I can't see this being an exception.
    How is it 'unnatural?' What are you basing that on? Biology? Religion? The Constitution? (You've already implied that doesnt even matter.)

    This country was founded on equality for all men. SCOTUS chose to eventually include blacks and women in that. We are going to have to live with that, sorry. Unless you think you can get it overturned. Good luck with that.

    Are you implying that men cannot adapt to women on an equal footing in academia and the workplace? If they cannot, then they deserve to take their place lower in society. I do not for a moment believe that but that is what your 4th paragraph seems to imply.

    And why should women be satisfied with marriages where they do not feel empowered and equal? Men with superior incomes divorced same age wives for younger women for millenia and still do it. What on Earth are you saying is different? You're just pissed that now, women may more often be in the same position if they choose! That's just hypocritical. Neither is right but certainly men cannot claim the high road here.

    Maybe men tried to have it all 'before' and that aint true either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  9. #279
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    OK. It's late and I'm ready for bed. So maybe this is completely off track here but is it possible that men no longer feel like competing for women? Or today feel like they have to work harder to get one? They feel like they are entitled to a woman? And one that will accept them as 'the head of the house?' Hmmmmmm.

    (I am not presuming that it's a competitive thing....it's just a theory, lol)
    Men are still competing for women but what's happening is that, without marriage pressure in the pot, the time of first marriage is being pushed back. During this time women are throwing their hat in the ring to snag that most-admired man. So these top guys get a lot of female attention but the competition amongst women is more fierce. Meanwhile the Star-Trek nerds are the losers in the game. This is a fun time for women, the single life can be terrific. The problem is that this time, in the 20s, is also the time that women are best equipped to find a mate. The young women who do get married at this time, likely find pretty good mates. The guys who are still single are the guys at the top of the pecking order and the ones at the bottom. The guys at the top are having a great time and enjoying the female attention. The guys at the bottom are frustrated and dropping out. As more women choose to settle down, the male pool of potential mates keeps lowering in quality. By the time their 20s are over, many women have given those prime years of their lives to guys who are no longer in the picture and are now deigning to settle for the men that they had previously rejected. Some guys, by this point, don't find that offer too enticing and instead choose to remain single where they had once wanted to get married.

    That graph I posted earlier, constrained the choices of both men and women and resulted in a more equal pairing dynamic. There are costs and benefits to that type of social order. It's not just costs.

  10. #280
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    How is it 'unnatural?'
    What I'm saying is that women's liberation is not like a force of nature, like the tide coming in. It's the creation of people. It's a choice. It's not of nature.

    And why should women be satisfied with marriages where they do not feel empowered and equal?
    It's not a matter of how things SHOULD be, it's a matter of how things ARE. Men and women FEEL what they feel, they don't feel what a philosophy instructs them to feel. You can't train yourself to be happy if you're sad.

    Men with superior incomes divorced same age wives for younger women for millenia and still do it. What on Earth are you saying is different?
    These men didn't divorce their wives BECAUSE the man earned more than the woman and this made the men respect the woman less.

    Look upthread, someone posted a link to the NYT about the sex lives of married couples where the men who were more egalitarian had a less frequent sex life than the men who were following a more traditional male role within a marriage. Feminists women SHOULD be more attracted to the egalitarian men because that's what their philosophy suggests is desirable. Instead the feminist women WERE more attracted to the more traditional male behavior and rewarded these men with more sex.

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