View Poll Results: Men: Would you marry an American Woman?

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  • Yes

    72 70.59%
  • No

    23 22.55%
  • Does not apply to me.

    7 6.86%
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Thread: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?[W:771]

  1. #1331
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?[W:771]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Come on, we all know that you look down upon people who aren't holding up their end of your weird "traditional" roles values, so yes, people might feel like they have to justify themselves.

    Yes, I agree that working and providing for a family isn't easy, and that is why it should be a choice, and people who choose not to (or cannot for whatever reason) follow traditional roles or to not have children shouldn't be looked down upon. That's not fair.
    Society is ultimately a team effort. The difficulty these days is that we are living in a culture where people basically feel that they have no responsibility to anything other than themselves, and so that team effort is failing.

    There's no problem with "choice" in and of itself.

    What is a problem is when things get to the point where a majority of people are making objectively poor or unproductive choices, and not stopping to think about the long term implications of their actions for either themselves, or their communities. There's simply no way a system can effectively function under such a short sighted and self-serving paradigm.

    The people making these decisions are really neither here nor there. I object to the attitudes which make such a state of affairs possible in the first place more than anything else.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 03-07-14 at 01:30 AM.

  2. #1332
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?[W:771]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post

    What is a problem is when things get to the point where a majority of people are making objectively poor or unproductive choices, and not stopping to think about the long term consequences of their actions for either themselves, or their communities. There's simply no way a system can effectively function under such a short sighted and self-serving paradigm.
    The problem here Gatho is that what makes a decision "poor or unproductive" is pretty subjective.
    "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers" - Voltaire
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?[W:771]

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    The problem here Gatho is that what makes a decision "poor or unproductive" is pretty subjective.
    From any objective standpoint, things have become worse, not better, as a result of our society's adoption of a more "Liberal" social model.

    Our economy is settling into stagnation due to declining birth rates and aging populations, upwards social mobility is in the toilet while government dependency shoots through the roof due to single motherhood, divorce, and broken homes in general limiting economic opportunities for advancement, and the young adults meant to continue our culture into the next generation grow more listless, debauched, and worthless with each passing year due to the influence of our, quite frankly toxic, youth and popular cultures.

    The only thing any of this can be said to "benefit" in any way whatsoever is some nebulous notion of hedonistic "individual freedom." I'm sorry, but I simply do not view "individualism" as being a pressing enough goal to warrant jeopardizing the well being of the collective whole.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 03-07-14 at 02:03 AM.

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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?[W:771]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post

    Our economy is settling into stagnation due to declining birth rates and aging populations, upwards social mobility is in the toilet while government dependency shoots through the roof due to single motherhood, divorce, and broken homes limiting economic opportunities for advancement, and the young adults meant to continue our culture into the next generation continue to grow more listless, debauched, and worthless with each passing year due to the influence of our, quite frankly toxic, youth and popular culture.

    The only thing any of this can be said to "benefit" in any way whatsoever is some nebulous notion of hedonistic "individual freedom." I'm sorry, but I simply don't see "individualism" as being a pressing enough goal to sacrifice the well being of the collective whole.
    and you assign responsibility for this to the "liberal social model"?
    "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers" - Voltaire
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?[W:771]

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    and you assign responsibility for this to the "liberal social model"?
    In large part, yes. The blame for these problems can be laid at the feet of the changes in attitude and fundamental structure brought about in our society over course of the last half century by such Left Wing socio-political developments as the Cultural / Sexual "Revolution."

    Where the broken state of the modern family or the toxic nature of our present youth culture is concerned, the blame can be placed absolutely no where else.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 03-07-14 at 07:54 AM.

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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?[W:771]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    In large part, yes. The blame for these problems can be laid at the feet of the changes in attitude and fundamental structure brought about in our society over course of the last half century by such Left Wing socio-political developments as the Cultural / Sexual "Revolution."

    The blame for the broken state of the modern family and the toxic nature of our present youth culture can be placed absolutely no where else.
    I suppose if taken to the literal interpretation one can see the terms Conservative to indicate societal stagnation and purposeful standstill, and Liberal as the evolution and adaptation of a society. If taken this way, you would have a valid point...yet the evolving nature of all societies will inevitably occur as reality flows in time.

    You are certainly "Very Conservative" as proclaimed in your profile, and that is perfectly fine....but, it creates the basis for your perceptions of a broken society, primarily because you do not wish to see it change.

  7. #1337
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?[W:771]

    Quote Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
    I suppose if taken to the literal interpretation one can see the terms Conservative to indicate societal stagnation and purposeful standstill, and Liberal as the evolution and adaptation of a society. If taken this way, you would have a valid point...yet the evolving nature of all societies will inevitably occur as reality flows in time.

    You are certainly "Very Conservative" as proclaimed in your profile, and that is perfectly fine....but, it creates the basis for your perceptions of a broken society, primarily because you do not wish to see it change.
    I do not think family structure should change to these levels seen in USA.
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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?[W:771]

    Quote Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
    I suppose if taken to the literal interpretation one can see the terms Conservative to indicate societal stagnation and purposeful standstill, and Liberal as the evolution and adaptation of a society. If taken this way, you would have a valid point...yet the evolving nature of all societies will inevitably occur as reality flows in time.

    You are certainly "Very Conservative" as proclaimed in your profile, and that is perfectly fine....but, it creates the basis for your perceptions of a broken society, primarily because you do not wish to see it change.
    To quote C.S. Lewis here:

    "We all want progress. But progress means getting nearer to the place where you want to be. And if you have taken a wrong turn, going forward does not get you any nearer. If you are on the wrong road, progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road; and in that case, the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive man."


    I don't deny that change can and will happen. I'm not even necessarily opposed to it if it can be said to contribute something to society as a whole.

    Again, however, I simply don't think this has been the case with the social changes the Western World has experienced over the course of the last half century. They have only served to make things more difficult, by and large, not better.

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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?[W:771]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    To quote C.S. Lewis here:

    "We all want progress. But progress means getting nearer to the place where you want to be. And if you have taken a wrong turn, going forward does not get you any nearer. If you are on the wrong road, progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road; and in that case, the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive man."

    I don't deny that change can and will happen. I'm not even necessarily opposed to it if it can be said to contribute something to society as a whole.

    Again, however, I simply don't think this has been the case with the social changes the Western World has experienced over the course of the last half century. They have only served to make things more difficult, by and large, not better.
    In many ways I agree with you...in some not so much. I also feel it important to consider the impact of population growth and migration on society, as well as technology and communications.

    None of these are either conservative or liberal realities.

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    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?[W:771]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Project much?



    Just to make sure I have your a priori arguments right, are you suggesting that people should be excused from doing the right thing (assuming that having and taking care of a family is the right thing - which I agree is not true universally but for the sake of argument) if doing that right thing is difficult?
    Just to make sure I have your argument right here, are you suggesting that "for the sake of argument" we all agree that something is true (ie that having and taking care of a family is the right thing to do) even though we know it is not true?
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