View Poll Results: Men: Would you marry an American Woman?

Voters
102. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    72 70.59%
  • No

    23 22.55%
  • Does not apply to me.

    7 6.86%
Page 109 of 164 FirstFirst ... 95999107108109110111119159 ... LastLast
Results 1,081 to 1,090 of 1640

Thread: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?[W:771]

  1. #1081
    Sage
    opendebate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Last Seen
    09-17-17 @ 01:28 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    7,315

    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I've provided financial coaching, career advice, and personal mentoring to, well, probably a couple of hundred 18-24 year old males over the last few years, and I struggle to come up with a definition by which I can describe "having a clear goal in life and working towards it" is a defining feature of the age group. We're extending adolescence until what - 26 now? 26 year olds used to have multiple children and a career. Now they are in graduate school working on that thesis eventually while still using their parents' health insurance? That is going to have effects. We sent everyone to college and then we started extending college -your typical four year degree now happens in five years if it happens at all. That is going to have effects. Marriage and parenthood is a major spur for men to grow up. It's happening later and later and less and less. That is going to have effects.
    I don't doubt your experience but I would question whether your experience was limited to a particular socioeconomic group and that what you witnessed was an affect of those conditions rather than any impact of the feminist movement. That seems to be more logical.

    It also makes sense to me that adolescence is extended due to economic necessity not because men don't have to grow up to get laid anymore.

    that's not implausible at all. Women are attracted to alpha's, after all. Men therefore seek success not least because it increases their attractiveness to women, and their ability to turn that attraction into what they are seeking (sex). Give a guy sex without making him work for it, and he's like the butterfly you helped out of the cocoon. Happy now, and he'll never fly under his own power.
    I sometimes like to have sex with alphas but I never wanted to have a relationship with one. Women are now free to make the same distinction between who they want to have sex with and who they want to have a lasting relationship as been have always had.

    Your position implies that women always want commitment and men always just want sex. I give both genders more room than that.
    "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers" - Voltaire
    "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow men. True nobility lies in being superior to your former self" -Hemingway

  2. #1082
    Professor
    Capster78's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Florida
    Last Seen
    08-24-15 @ 02:35 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    2,253

    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    There's a junior solider in my unit who acts almost exactly like that. The guy's 25, but he acts like he's 17.

    He comes from an affluent middle class family, he's slllllooooowwwly working his way through college for a degree in Criminal Justice even he thinks will be worthles (after flunking out once), he lives at home, is a borderline alcoholic (claims he can't sleep without a decent buzz going), will scream at his mother like a petulant child when she gives him fuss about mooching, and states that his goal for the foreseeable future is to complete his enlistment contract just so he can be free to smoke weed without answering to anyone.

    He's a nice enough guy (he sort of treats me like an older brother even though we're the same age), but seeing how this guy lives is like watching a damn train wreck.

    The sad part is that stories like his are not terribly uncommon either. I knew another guy almost exactly the same way in my old unit, only he was about 6 years older. After spending his entire twenties ****ing around, he finally got married to a woman who was willing to provide for him, and is now perfectly content to sit around playing video games and drinking beer while he plays house husband for her.

    Go figure.



    During my deployment overseas, I was honestly dreaming about women almost every other night.

    At the time, it seemed like everything in my life was on track too.

    I joined the military to help pay for college in 2007 and actually managed to get picked up for a job with good civilian employment prospects, I went to a school with a good academic reputation, I graduated with honors after only four years in 2010 with a degree in a discipline relevant to my military line of work, I deployed to the Middle East for a year 6 months after graduation and got some practical experience in the field and a decent chunk of money to make a down payment on starting an independent life for myself after I got back, and....

    ...

    ...

    ...

    I got home and was basically instantly swatted upside the head by the Obama economy.

    None of the jobs I actually wanted were willing to hire me, and I was over qualified for the lower tier jobs. The chunk of money I accumulated withered away with time, as did my standards for seeking employment.

    Now, here I sit; 25, single, living at home, working part time at some ridiculous retail job that barely pays me enough to cover my expenses every paycheck, and trying desperately to get picked up for an officer slot in the Army (basically the only upper tier job I'm qualified for right now) before the institution gets fully gutted.

    Yaaaaaayyy!!! 'Merica!
    Off topic, but from a military member to a perspective military member, joining the military now is actually even riskier then the civilian job market. Until they finish cuts and decide on a definate post war military size, even a 3 year contract is risky because they can simply buy your contract out and send you back into the civilian market. If you have a college degree, I would keep looking for a civilian job and wait on the military option until things settle down.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

  3. #1083
    Sage
    SmokeAndMirrors's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    RVA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:13 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    18,175

    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    no, actually, nothing I have said is based upon that idea. Perhaps this confusion is why you think they are incorrect.

    Fertility rates are falling for a number of reasons. Another major factor is the socialization of old-age costs. And they are important to those of us who give a crap about the future. Which, agreeably, parents are more likely to do than the "childfree".

    Incorrect. Women do more housework, but not nearly 100%, unless they are the ones who are home all day, in which case the man can only do housework when he is, well, home to do it. Here are the numbers according to PEW:

    You will see that even including the fact that many more women than men are full-time homemakers, men do a little over a third of the housework, and a third of the child-rearing. You are confusing 1965 with 2014. Apparently feminist rhetoric hasn't caught up to reality.

    Now that would be interesting to see - can you demonstrate it? Because - strictly anecdotally - what I see in my own life are women who are baby mama's to multiple babies whose father(s) think that their responsibilities begin and usually end with a check, if that. The highest fertility rates are among the demographics that are less likely to have a successful marriage. So that would have to be a pretty powerful narrow slice, there.

    Then they should marry men instead of boys, or demand that boys become men in order to marry them. However, I have not seen the data which demonstrates that this belief is predominant among women who choose not to have children, or to sharply reduce the number of those that they do have.

    Well, Smoke, gosh. What an interesting question. Why do they? And why do those who don't poll so heavily that they want to?

    Now, Thomas and I have said some stuff along the lines that - generally - this is the sort of thing that women want. When polled, apparently, women say they want it, too. And when you take a look at their actions, it seems as though they often act out those desires.

    But you and Chris are insisting that they don't. So, you tell us. If women do not want that, then why do they do it, and why do they claim to want to do so?

    You're going to have to start reading what you're responding to, or perhaps start playing with the idea that your opposition isn't a shallow stereotype.
    Yeah, those damn childfree making sure your kids have advancing medical care. Anyway...

    You're comparing apples and oranges. Taking the broad view, the woman is doing less work, affording her more time to do other stuff. However, we were talking specifically about women who try to "do it all." The career, the kids, etc. And the amount of work the man is doing to help doesn't change. So if she is working more, and he is not helping any more than he would be if she were working less, that means what...?

    The Nordic countries in particular, but really most of Europe, are starting to see a fertility turn-around as men become more likely to take paternity leave and contribute in other ways. It's very early days, but the fact that only the most sexist developed countries are the ones where fertility is still falling is probably not a coincidence.

    A large chunk of childless women or mothers of single children in the US name lack of time and/or their career as a reason they did not have children, or have more children. They would have were it not for those factors. For the upshot...
    Childfree - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    That's exactly what I just said, dude. That they want to, but there is a reason they don't. And the reason they don't, is because they DON'T want to be treated the way you advocate, and the way they know they will be. However, that does not mean they don't want marriage and/or children.

    I would, except everything about your stances is based on stereotypes, so...

  4. #1084
    Sage
    opendebate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Last Seen
    09-17-17 @ 01:28 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    7,315

    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    No; it's basically a hippy-fied version of the Stepford wife. It's actually kind of shocking how sexist the third wave really is.
    care to explain then? NP if you don't want to get into it here.
    "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers" - Voltaire
    "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow men. True nobility lies in being superior to your former self" -Hemingway

  5. #1085
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Charleston, South Carolina
    Last Seen
    12-02-16 @ 01:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    28,659

    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    Off topic, but from a military member to a perspective military member, joining the military now is actually even riskier then the civilian job market. Until they finish cuts and decide on a definate post war military size, even a 3 year contract is risky because they can simply buy your contract out and send you back into the civilian market. If you have a college degree, I would keep looking for a civilian job and wait on the military option until things settle down.
    I'm trying other things here and there (retail management is another possible venue), but the military is honestly the only half way decent bet I have left at this point.

    College degrees these days aren't worth the paper they're printed on.

  6. #1086
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:40 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,148

    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    I don't doubt your experience but I would question whether your experience was limited to a particular socioeconomic group and that what you witnessed was an affect of those conditions rather than any impact of the feminist movement. That seems to be more logical.
    it was members of the Marine Corps. the only demographic they all belong to was generational (which a couple of exceptions) they were younger than me (I'm 30). White, blac, hispanic, you name it. I've known a multi-millionaire who was a PFC in the Marine Corps, and I've known plenty of people who were idiotic with money and therefore often broke, which is to say, they weren't that far off from the American norm. I've served with people who had degrees, people who didn't I was a Sergeant with a Masters' Degree, my SSgt had a Law Degree, and one of my Corporals barely graduated High School, re-took the ASVAB to try to move into a different MOS, and accidentally disqualified himself from military service.

    Outside of "self-selecting for alpha type personalities", and the fact that we get fewer African Americans than the Army or Navy, you don't get that many particular socio-economic groupings in the Marine Corps.

    It also makes sense to me that adolescence is extended due to economic necessity not because men don't have to grow up to get laid anymore.
    Nope. Economic ease makes it easier to remain in adolescence.

    I sometimes like to have sex with alphas but I never wanted to have a relationship with one.
    well that would be one manifestation of what we are pointing out, but again, it's a general statement. generally, women are hardwired to be attracted to alpha males just as males are hardwired to be attracted to youth, physical attractiveness, etc; both genders seeking out the qualities in a mate that would give them an advantage in passing down their genes.

  7. #1087
    On Vacation
    joko104's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 04:30 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    31,569
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    No one yet has presented any superior natures of non-American women. Just fantasy ones maybe.

  8. #1088
    Sage
    SmokeAndMirrors's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    RVA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:13 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    18,175

    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    care to explain then? NP if you don't want to get into it here.
    The third wave promotes motherhood as the ultimate expression of femininity, and elevates it above everything. Not just career, but even their relationship with their partner. It's the feminism of co-sleeping into grade school and things like that (although to their view, real feminists homeschool too). A woman who is properly deferential to her reproductive ability spends her time at home, making crunchy DIY products to protect her children from the poison of consumer products. It's a total obsession with children and homemaking.

    Women like me are viewed with a certain degree of disdain for rejecting our most "feminine" quality. They'll pay lip service to the idea that women get to decide their paths, but they will also say it's "sad" that I have chosen not to experience the "ultimate" love and purpose of being a mother.

    Personally, I want nothing to do with the third wave, and I think it's nothing more than a reaction by disappointed second wave feminists whose lives didn't turn out how they imagined.

    Now, that said, there are still lots of feminists doing good work, but this is the most clearly identifiable, dedicated feminism that I see at this point in time.

  9. #1089
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:40 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,148

    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Yeah, those damn childfree making sure your kids have advancing medical care. Anyway...
    No they aren't, either. They're putting fluoride in the water, which is why American men must bomb Europe in order to protect our Manly Essences.

    You're comparing apples and oranges. Taking the broad view, the woman is doing less work, affording her more time to do other stuff. However, we were talking specifically about women who try to "do it all." The career, the kids, etc. And the amount of work the man is doing to help doesn't change. So if she is working more, and he is not helping any more than he would be if she were working less, that means what...?
    Actually I was comparing 1965 to 2011 to demonstrate that your claims as to work breakdown were inaccurate. And it was apples-to-apples.

    The Nordic countries in particular, but really most of Europe, are starting to see a fertility turn-around as men become more likely to take paternity leave and contribute in other ways. It's very early days, but the fact that only the most sexist developed countries are the ones where fertility is still falling is probably not a coincidence.
    I'd really like to see this, if you have a link. I have not heard anything about Europe having a fertility turn-around that was driven by anything other than immigration. Immigrants to Europe tend to keep something closer to the fertility rates of their country of origin, but are also least likely to demonstrate the social trends you are describing as feeding fertility.

    However, it also seems that you agree this is not the case in the States. ?

    A large chunk of childless women or mothers of single children in the US name lack of time and/or their career as a reason they did not have children, or have more children. They would have were it not for those factors. For the upshot...
    Childfree - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    yeah, you've posted the childfree stuff before. And I agree - having children is a drag on a career. But this isn't answering the question - if the choice to marry, have children, and become a home-maker is such an awful one, why do so many women make it, and why do 84% of working women say that they wish they had the financial resources to do so??

    That's exactly what I just said, dude. That they want to, but there is a reason they don't. And the reason they don't, is because they DON'T want to be treated the way you advocate, and the way they know they will be.
    You appear to have no idea how I treat my wife, or even how I advocate men treat women inside of marriage. If the cartoonish one-liners and 1965-era rhetoric you have brought to bear in this debate is indicative, it seems you have no idea what Thomas thinks, either, and are substituting easy strawmen for your the actual people you are talking to.

    I would, except everything about your stances is based on stereotypes, so...
    No, my stance is built on generalities, which include infinite nuances and variations, but express themselves as means and trends. You are claiming that the people you are talking to believe things they straight up tell you they do not believe.

  10. #1090
    Sage
    SheWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:39 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    24,512

    Re: Men: Would You Marry an American Woman?[W:771]

    A stay at home dad and working mom is completely acceptable in Germany and much of northern Europe. It goes against traditional gender roles, and that troubles Americans.


    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Well I'd point to that as part of my greater point that our common culture today denigrates the role of the father, if we used to overemphasize it. If we fell off of one side of the horse during the days of Father Knows Best, we've fallen off the other side in the days of Homer Simpson. My father changed plenty of diapers, I've changed diapers every day I've been home for years, and all the fathers I know change diapers. Hell, I literally change two diapers every day before breakfast, since I get up with the kids and get them fed.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •