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Should German WWII vets be arrested?[W:260]

Should German WWII vets still be arrested?

  • Yes

    Votes: 15 22.1%

  • No

    Votes: 29 42.6%

  • It depends

    Votes: 24 35.3%
  • Total voters
    68
Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

Sherman123 said:
They would have been transferred most likely. Almost no German soldiers were 'ordered to kill' those who manned the firing trenches, the gas chambers, and the execution block were almost all there by choice. Whether Wehrmacht or SS.
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I never learned that in history. Can you cite a valid source, or is that possibly part of the revisionist history I've been seeing for the last couple decades now?
 
Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

DA60 said:
If they committed a crime, bring them to justice.
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Punishment is not justice. Restitution is justice.
 
Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

Jerry said:
Punishment is not justice. Restitution is justice.
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I am not saying punish them...I am saying try them.

If they are found guilty, then punish them..and give them ZERO leniency.

If the sentence is 30 years; I don't care if they are 100 years old and dying of cancer...make them serve every last second of their sentence (or until they die in prison).

These people (if guilty) assisted in the extermination of human beings...they deserve to rot in jail for the rest of their lives.


You disagree - I could not care much less.
 
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Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

DA60 said:
I am not saying punish them...I am saying try them.

If they are found guilty, then punish them..and give them ZERO leniency.

If the sentence is 30 years; I don't care if they are 100 years old and dying of cancer...make them serve every last second of their sentence (or until they die in prison).

These people (if guilty) assisted in the extermination of human beings...they deserve to rot in jail for the rest of their lives.


You disagree - I could not care much less.
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It seems to me that under what we know of the Hitler regime 70 years ago, it doesn't matter any more.

Are you always so vindictive?
 
Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

Lord of Planar said:
It seems to me that under what we know of the Hitler regime 70 years ago, it doesn't matter any more.

Are you always so vindictive?
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So trying (what turns out to be) guilty people and then forcing them to serve their sentence once fairly tried/convicted is 'vindictive' to you?

Noted.
 
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Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

If there is verifiable evidence that these soldiers committed war-crimes, crimes that would have been worthy of conviction under the war crimes tribunals or the courts at the time they committed these crimes, then yes they must be arrested and prosecuted. They have to be prosecuted, if possible and desirable, in the country in which they perpetrated such crimes. And if possible means that these countries must be willing and able to prosecute them within a reasonable time frame and desirable means that they are countries in which the legal system must be fair and respectful of human rights (not Russia or some of it's former soviet states like Ukraine, Turkmenistan, etc.).

There must also be real evidence and a US court has to review such evidence actually exists before sending prisoners to other countries. Or if the US would prefer, they can be prosecuted in the US itself but not doing anything if you have a war criminal in your midst (and that goes for any country) is not acceptable.
 
Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

DA60 said:
So trying guilty people and then forcing them to serve their sentence once fairly tried/comvicted is 'vindictive' to you?

Noted.

I doubt their victims (or their descendents) share your attitiude.



And why does it not 'matter any more' to you?
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I notice that you already have these people tried and convicted...

Have you understood anything I have said?

Tell me. What good would a trial be today without already having proof that these people agreed in their heart top take such actions?

They were soldiers, following orders. They were not the top officers giving the orders. You cannot apply our military's sense of honor that it's OK to disobey an unlawful order. What is a lawful order in their society is a far cry different than a lawful order in theirs, of the past.

For the record, I support the Jewish people against injustice. I just don't see how attacking a tool of their destruction does any good. Just what will it accomplish outside of revenge?
 
Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

DA60 said:
I am not saying punish them...I am saying try them.

If they are found guilty, then punish them..and give them ZERO leniency.

If the sentence is 30 years; I don't care if they are 100 years old and dying of cancer...make them serve every last second of their sentence (or until they die in prison).

These people (if guilty) assisted in the extermination of human beings...they deserve to rot in jail for the rest of their lives.


You disagree - I could not care much less.
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That's not justice. That's retribution. Justice is seizing their assets and giving it all to a Jewish charity. This way everything these Nazi soldiers accomplished in the lives they shouldn't have had after the war goes to benefit holocaust survivors and their legacy.
 
Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

Lord of Planar said:
I notice that you already have these people tried and convicted...

Have you understood anything I have said?

Tell me. What good would a trial be today without already having proof that these people agreed in their heart top take such actions?

They were soldiers, following orders. They were not the top officers giving the orders. You cannot apply our military's sense of honor that it's OK to disobey an unlawful order. What is a lawful order in their society is a far cry different than a lawful order in theirs, of the past.

For the record, I support the Jewish people against injustice. I just don't see how attacking a tool of their destruction does any good. Just what will it accomplish outside of revenge?
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:rolleyes:

No, I want all those that have sufficient evidence to be brought to trial, to be made to stand trial and IF they are convicted then they should be punished to the full extent of the law...DUH.

What would be accomplished if innocent people were convicted of crimes they did not commit?

Jeez...


And your excuses are interesting.

They speak volumes about you as a person, imo.


Maybe the old excuse 'I was just following orders' or 'I was just doing my job' are good enough for you.

Well, they are NEVER good enough for me.

They maybe reasons - but they are not excuses.


We are done here, as I am not wasting one more second on someone with your attitude towards war crimes.
 
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Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

Jerry said:
That's not justice. That's retribution. Justice is seizing their assets and giving it all to a Jewish charity. This way everything these Nazi soldiers accomplished in the lives they shouldn't have had after the war goes to benefit holocaust survivors and their legacy.
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Nonsensical minutia.

Take it up with the war crimes tribunal.


We are done here.
 
Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

DA60 said:
And your excuses are interesting.

They speak volumes about you as a person, imo.
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It's hard to actually understand a person over the internet. If you knew me for real, you would not question my integrity.

have you been in the military?

Are you older than 40? just how much wisdom in life do you have?

I've seen a lot over the years. I am not one to rush to judgement like you obviously are. I would suspect you are in your 20's. Am I wrong?
 
Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

DA60 said:
Nonsensical minutia.

Take it up with the war crimes tribunal.

We are done here.
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What you want them brought to is not justice.
 
Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

Robbie Loucks said:
At this point, we should just forgive and forget.
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Do you really understand the Holocaust and what was done to human beings? Never, ever forget and never forgive. This is not about war, this is not about soldiers fighting on a battlefront....this is unspeakable, this is so incredibly evil that to forget what happened would be a crime in itself, and to forgive would give free reign for it to happen again. Have you any idea of what was done to children? What was done during medical experiments? How can you say forgive and forget Mengele's experiments on twin children? The men who were guards in concentration camps were not warriors fighting to defend their country. They were men who supported the experimentation and extermination of concentration camp inmates. Please don't fool yourself into any kind of revisionist history...."Oh, the poor Germans and poor guards were just victims of Hitler and his henchmen". Hitler was in power because it was what the majority of Germans wanted and they KNEW what he stood for, what he said in his speeches. They KNEW and supported him anyway. Few things anger me more regarding history than the revisionist who, decades later, pretends that those who were complicit in atrocities were somehow victims of the system.
 
Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

LadyMoonlight said:
Do you really understand the Holocaust and what was done to human beings? Never, ever forget and never forgive. This is not about war, this is not about soldiers fighting on a battlefront....this is unspeakable, this is so incredibly evil that to forget what happened would be a crime in itself, and to forgive would give free reign for it to happen again. Have you any idea of what was done to children? What was done during medical experiments? How can you say forgive and forget Mengele's experiments on twin children? The men who were guards in concentration camps were not warriors fighting to defend their country. They were men who supported the experimentation and extermination of concentration camp inmates. Please don't fool yourself into any kind of revisionist history...."Oh, the poor Germans and poor guards were just victims of Hitler and his henchmen". Hitler was in power because it was what the majority of Germans wanted and they KNEW what he stood for, what he said in his speeches. They KNEW and supported him anyway. Few things anger me more regarding history than the revisionist who, decades later, pretends that those who were complicit in atrocities were somehow victims of the system.
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Great post, imo.


Forgive and forget...the Holocaust?!?!? Absolutely ridiculous.
 
Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

DA60 said:
Great post, imo.


Forgive and forget...the Holocaust?!?!? Absolutely ridiculous.


While we are at it, why don't we just forgive and forget child molestation by priests/others.

'Look, it happened SO long ago...let's just forgive and forget'.


And let's just not prosecute murderers if they can get away with it for long enough.


Why don't we put a new exemption in our laws...if it happened long enough ago, we won't bother to prosecute?

We can call it 'the Forgive and Forget' Law.


:rolleyes:
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Wow...

Do you feel like a God to believe all your assumptions are correct?

What if they aren't?

Unless you where there, and actually know as fact, why things happened as they did... Just who are you to judge? This sounds to me like the same sense of superiority that Hitler felt!
 
Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

Voltaire X said:
Germany is STILL arresting WW2 vets because they were stationed at concentration camps.

BBC News - Germany arrests three suspected Auschwitz guards

Three men aged 88, 92 and 94 have been detained by German authorities on suspicion of being guards at the Nazi death camp at Auschwitz.

The homes of a number of men were raided in three German states, months after prosecutors investigating Nazi-era war crimes announced they were recommending charges against 30 people.


Is this fair? The youngest of the three would have been probably born in 1926, making him no older than 19 when the war ended. Additionally, it's not like these guys volunteered for the war, or even to be guards at Auschwitz. They were forced into it; almost every German male of military age was forced into fighting for the Third Reich. I don't think it's right for us to do this. It's ridiculous for a bunch of people lucky enough to be born in the post-war era to go back and persecute these people for things that happened 70 years ago, especially since these people couldn't have possibly hoped to stop anything. What would have happened if they refused to be guards at Auschwitz? They would have probably just been executed on the spot for refusing to obey orders.
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Think of it this way for a moment. The people lived a long life, while the masses of people they were accessories in murdering didn't. That has formed the attitude towards political responsibility of the country that saw millions of murders return to power or at least live happily ever after.
 
Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

Superfly said:
How can they be prosecuted if they were following a direct order from their commanding officer? Honestly, I understand that this was a horrible circumstance, but if these guys are brought to justice, in my opinion, anyway, it'd make more soldiers hesitant about signing up, if they can be prosecuted for following an order they were forced to do.
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All military orders still require a person to use their common sense and humanity before following, so it's not that simple. If a commanding officer orders you to slaughter prisoners or non-combatants that would be an illegal order, and you would have no defense against your participation unless you could prove duress, or some other compelling strategic reason that required you to follow that order. For example: a covert team is behind enemy lines and a combatant surrenders to them, but they have no way of securing that prisoner without compromising the mission and possibly costing lives. In that unfortunate circumstance you might have an out.
 
Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

Sherman123 said:
They would have been transferred most likely. Almost no German soldiers were 'ordered to kill' those who manned the firing trenches, the gas chambers, and the execution block were almost all there by choice. Whether Wehrmacht or SS.
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Sure, the misdeeds committed by the Germans while invading Russia were all done by people who were there by choice :roll:
 
Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

Voltaire X said:
Germany is STILL arresting WW2 vets because they were stationed at concentration camps.

BBC News - Germany arrests three suspected Auschwitz guards

Three men aged 88, 92 and 94 have been detained by German authorities on suspicion of being guards at the Nazi death camp at Auschwitz.

The homes of a number of men were raided in three German states, months after prosecutors investigating Nazi-era war crimes announced they were recommending charges against 30 people.


Is this fair? The youngest of the three would have been probably born in 1926, making him no older than 19 when the war ended. Additionally, it's not like these guys volunteered for the war, or even to be guards at Auschwitz. They were forced into it; almost every German male of military age was forced into fighting for the Third Reich. I don't think it's right for us to do this. It's ridiculous for a bunch of people lucky enough to be born in the post-war era to go back and persecute these people for things that happened 70 years ago, especially since these people couldn't have possibly hoped to stop anything. What would have happened if they refused to be guards at Auschwitz? They would have probably just been executed on the spot for refusing to obey orders.
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This has nothing to do with justice, it's about political ass covering. They want to make it look like they're still doing something. Unless a direct crime can be attributed to them, not just crime by association, they should be left alone.

DA60 said:
If they committed a crime, bring them to justice.

I don't care if they are 18 or 88. Whether they are healthy or dying of cancer.

Justice is blind...as it should be.


Why not ask any surviving victims if they want these people brought to trial or not? If they say 'no'...I am fine with that.

But if they say 'yes'...prosecute them to the absolute full extent of the law.
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Yes, but we're talking about someone whose sole crime was being stationed at Auschwitz. Imagine you get drafted and sent there, and all you do is man a guard post. If you try to refuse they'll shoot you on site. How can anyone be held responsible for being put in such a situation? The officers in charge making the calls should be prosecuted, the rest not.
 
Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

Voltaire X said:
Germany is STILL arresting WW2 vets because they were stationed at concentration camps.

BBC News - Germany arrests three suspected Auschwitz guards

Three men aged 88, 92 and 94 have been detained by German authorities on suspicion of being guards at the Nazi death camp at Auschwitz.

The homes of a number of men were raided in three German states, months after prosecutors investigating Nazi-era war crimes announced they were recommending charges against 30 people.


Is this fair? The youngest of the three would have been probably born in 1926, making him no older than 19 when the war ended. Additionally, it's not like these guys volunteered for the war, or even to be guards at Auschwitz. They were forced into it; almost every German male of military age was forced into fighting for the Third Reich. I don't think it's right for us to do this. It's ridiculous for a bunch of people lucky enough to be born in the post-war era to go back and persecute these people for things that happened 70 years ago, especially since these people couldn't have possibly hoped to stop anything. What would have happened if they refused to be guards at Auschwitz? They would have probably just been executed on the spot for refusing to obey orders.
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I agree that it is often difficult to do the right, moral thing, but that's what most people on this planet have always done.

Anyone who participated in the Holocaust should pay a price for that.
 
Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

shrubnose said:
I agree that it is often difficult to do the right, moral thing, but that's what most people on this planet have always done.

Anyone who participated in the Holocaust should pay a price for that.
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So being drafted then stationed at a concentration camp automatically makes you deserving of a murder sentence? Have you ever been in the military?
 
Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

Peter King said:
Sure, the misdeeds committed by the Germans while invading Russia were all done by people who were there by choice :roll:
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They made their choice, when they voted for and allowed the writer of Mein Kampf and owner of the SA to be head of government. Every individual in a democracy is responsible for the actions of his or her government. And even in the army, I personally don't think that chain of command justifies participation in mass murder.
And don't forget. This guy was not lying. He set out pretty much in detail, what he planned to do.
 
Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

joG said:
They made their choice, when they voted for and allowed the writer of Mein Kampf and owner of the SA to be head of government. Every individual in a democracy is responsible for the actions of his or her government. And even in the army, I personally don't think that chain of command justifies participation in mass murder.
And don't forget. This guy was not lying. He set out pretty much in detail, what he planned to do.
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Ok, so we should start drafting the paperwork to try every German citizen born before 1939 with murder. When we're done with that, we can start drafting up the paperwork to charge all Americans with murder for all the murders that have been committed by our government in our names.
 
Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

RabidAlpaca said:
So being drafted then stationed at a concentration camp automatically makes you deserving of a murder sentence? Have you ever been in the military?
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That does and should not justify participating in mass murder and the other things that were prevalent in Auschwitz. This was a case, where line of command is and can be no justification. Resistance is necessary to avoid being a criminal. It is a bad situation to get into. But **** happens.
 
Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

joG said:
That does and should not justify participating in mass murder and the other things that were prevalent in Auschwitz. This was a case, where line of command is and can be no justification. Resistance is necessary to avoid being a criminal. It is a bad situation to get into. But **** happens.
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Considering you want to try all Germans born prior to 1939 with murder, I guess it doesn't matter what he did or didn't do, does it?
 
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