View Poll Results: Should German WWII vets still be arrested?

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  • Yes

    18 23.68%
  • No

    34 44.74%
  • It depends

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Thread: Should German WWII vets be arrested?[W:260]

  1. #221
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    Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    There is no truth or reality in your messages. None were just "stationed there" doing nothing while there.
    So you're refusing for a 3rd time to post a link? Wow, that's embarrassing.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

    Germans who were in the elite SS were not treated as prisoners of war, but as war criminals. The reason is because they were NOT compelled to be in the SS whatsoever. It was entirely volunteer and a position they had to pursue, considered prestigious. Nor was it unknown of the SS role and actions towards Jews and all the other acts against civilians.

    War Crimes Enclosure No. 1 - the prison camp for German war criminals at Dachau

    Not one German was required to serve and be part of the machinery of the death camps, of rounding up Jews or anyone else, nor any other atrocity. The prior link I provided documented any person could refuse to take any action against the Jews and there was not retaliation. Rather, they were simply treated as not capable of doing the job, the way you would not assign a person to overhaul aircraft motors who didn't know how to do so. It was understand and accepted that some German soldiers and some who joined the SS turned out not to have the strength - psychological strength and therefore lacked the skill - for such tasks.

    This was established in testimony in war trials by both ranking officers and lower members of the SS. There are numerous counts of German soldiers "unfit' for such duties, meaning they would not, and not one was punished. Ever. They were simply reassigned elsewhere.

    Among other things, when a person applied for and approved to be in the SS, which included proving he was not Jewish, among other things he was volunteering for was to be a Jew hunter. Being at the camps was voluntary and considered a prestigious assignment in the SS specifically because it was the ultimate act in the service of eradicating and exterminating Jews and other "subhumans."

  3. #223
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    Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    I can't help it if you wish to deny reality. Coercion is not a defense to murder, morally or legally.

    I absolutely would have refused to carry out such orders, as any decent person would.
    Would you? Even if it meant leaving behind family who could be suspect or persecuted or shot as you surely would have been? Or would the wiser course be to obey orders but do what you could to relieve the pain and suffering of those in the camps? What if Oscar Schindler had chosen to be a good Nazi and just shrug and/or look away instead of pretending to be an upstanding Nazi dignitary while quietly saving as many as he could? The many thousands of descendants of the "Schindler Jews" would certainly know how to answer that. And Schindler, a member of the Nazi party, is prominently memorialized as a humanitarian and great man in every Holocaust and Intolerance museum across the country.

    Unless there is somebody to come forward and accuse those three German soldiers of committing atrocities and cruelty, I say the fact that they were assigned to the Jewish holding or extermination centers is not sufficient to condemn them now.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    So you're refusing for a 3rd time to post a link? Wow, that's embarrassing.
    Who has never posted any link to anything you have declared is you.

    People sometimes wonder how a society or an individual could ever involved in such sadistic acts against children, women, old people. They only have to read your messages to understand how many men are willing to do so.

  5. #225
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    Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Who has never posted any link to anything you have declared is you.

    People sometimes wonder how a society or an individual could ever involved in such sadistic acts against children, women, old people. They only have to read your messages to understand how many men are willing to do so.
    4th refusal for a link.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfly View Post
    How can they be prosecuted if they were following a direct order from their commanding officer? Honestly, I understand that this was a horrible circumstance, but if these guys are brought to justice, in my opinion, anyway, it'd make more soldiers hesitant about signing up, if they can be prosecuted for following an order they were forced to do.
    "Crimes Against Humanity" stand void of rank and discipline and address only the person. Orders or no orders mean nothing.
    It's nothing more than X's and O's.

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    Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Would you? Even if it meant leaving behind family who could be suspect or persecuted or shot as you surely would have been? Or would the wiser course be to obey orders but do what you could to relieve the pain and suffering of those in the camps? What if Oscar Schindler had chosen to be a good Nazi and just shrug and/or look away instead of pretending to be an upstanding Nazi dignitary while quietly saving as many as he could? The many thousands of descendants of the "Schindler Jews" would certainly know how to answer that. And Schindler, a member of the Nazi party, is prominently memorialized as a humanitarian and great man in every Holocaust and Intolerance museum across the country.

    Unless there is somebody to come forward and accuse those three German soldiers of committing atrocities and cruelty, I say the fact that they were assigned to the Jewish holding or extermination centers is not sufficient to condemn them now.
    This constant lie to defend him is just that - a lie. Not one German was forced to join the SS. They were death squads. To lie is absolute and you have nothing to support it.

    You can not point to even one example where any German - civilian or soldier or officer - was persecuted, court martialed, shot nor any action of any kind against his family.

    If he is claiming he joined the SS and volunteered to go to slaughter ("exterminate") Jews for the purpose of trying to save them, he can present that defense. What is a lie is to claim that he didn't want to be, was forced to be there, or would have been punished if he refused or wanted a transfer. Working in an extermination camp was an assignment of high honor, there was no shortage of SS and others willing and wanting to do so.

  8. #228
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    Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    4th refusal for a link.
    Lies upon lies and now just diversion from the fact that in your defense of mass murderers and sadists and attempts to trivialize it to nothing you have yet to prove one thing you claim. Between us, who has refused to provide any link or documentation of anything is only you.

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    Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    Yeah, the difference is that most of us have evolved. There's a reason why we're the only country in the Western world without a miserable history of persecution of the Jews. Have you ever visited the city of York, where you can visit the spot where they gathered all the Jews together and burned them?
    The two largest Jewish populations at the start of WWII was #1 Poland (Warsaw) and #2 NYC. Jews were totally eradicated from Poland and Germany. The very few to return to Germany immediately after the war were killed/murdered by their German neighbors.

    Now the 2 largest Jewish populations are #1 Israel and #2 New York.

    There is no - zero, none - moral equivalency between dislike of Jews, Catholics, Blacks, Latinos, Italians, Northerners, Southerners and all the other dislikes different people have of each other in the USA, and the German holocaust.

    Only a true defender of mass murder and torture on a genocidal and societal level would even suggest there was any similarity. In fact, the United States was THE primary shelter and place of refuge for Jews and those who could afford it sent their children and families here.

    My wife's family knows an elderly Jewish man very well who was sent to the USA as an infant from Germany. That was all his family could afford. Even his twin brother had to stay behind. His entire family was murdered. The United States was the least prejudiced country against Jews in the world. The USA was Jews safe haven.

    There is reason to feel contempt and even hatred towards those who defend those of the holocaust and of those who try to declare there was one iota of similarity between Americans attitudes towards Jews to that of Germans, or the actions of the USA government to that of the German government towards Jews. Those who do are more than just horrific bigoted liars. They are such people of such immorality and amorality the was those of the holocaust.

    Sometimes I do question free speech when the intent of it is murderous bigotry and hatred at its core. I am reading this on this thread.

  10. #230
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    Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    This constant lie to defend him is just that - a lie. Not one German was forced to join the SS. They were death squads. To lie is absolute and you have nothing to support it.

    You can not point to even one example where any German - civilian or soldier or officer - was persecuted, court martialed, shot nor any action of any kind against his family.

    If he is claiming he joined the SS and volunteered to go to slaughter ("exterminate") Jews for the purpose of trying to save them, he can present that defense. What is a lie is to claim that he didn't want to be, was forced to be there, or would have been punished if he refused or wanted a transfer. Working in an extermination camp was an assignment of high honor, there was no shortage of SS and others willing and wanting to do so.
    ??? I don't see how this relates to my post at all. I know it is popular to say that German soldiers did not have to accept assignment to the concentration camps, and those who opted out suffered no negative consequences, but I have not found a single testimony of a German soldier who opted out. And common sense should tell us that it would take a very brave soul to say no to Himmler who, in the wake of the attempted assassination of Hitler, ordered the execution of roughly 5000 Germans accused of opposing Hitler and his policies. There are, however, testimonies from the survivors of acts of random kindness or mercy extended by German guards--very rare for sure--but remembered when they happened.

    My point was that we do not always accomplish the highest goals by direct frontal confrontation and/or self righteous indignation.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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