View Poll Results: Should German WWII vets still be arrested?

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  • Yes

    18 23.68%
  • No

    34 44.74%
  • It depends

    24 31.58%
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Thread: Should German WWII vets be arrested?[W:260]

  1. #171
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    Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Bingo. Not only are the illusions of purity juvenile and unconvincing, it's also revolting.

    The percentage of people that would actually do what they say they would do is in the low single digits.
    That is nothing to do with this thread...nothing.

    The point is should these men be put on trial...not whether others would do the same.

    Everyone makes mistakes...but what makes you honorable or not is how you handle those mistakes.

    And to say 'forgive and forget' to people that did illegal things (assuming there is enough evidence to convict them) is borderline inhuman, IMO.

    Soldiers are under a code of conduct. A moral code that they either swear to or are expected to follow...their fears are irrelevant. Laws don't go like; 'you cannot do such and such unless you are really scared or feel threatened.'.
    Sure, they act as mitigating circumstances during sentencing...obviously a guy that just murders someone without any pressure is going to get a stiffer sentence then someone that murders someone under great duress.
    But to just wave a blanket over the whole thing and say 'well, even though I have no first-hand knowledge of what went on there...I think that these guards should never be put on trial - no matter what the evidence - because I think it must have been very difficult for them to refuse orders.'.

    Disgusting and cowardly.


    I have little problem with what soldiers do to other soldiers - within reason. Soldiering is a club to me (which I was once a part of). You join the club and you fight against other 'club' members from other countries. And you all understand going in that there are almost no rules. That if things get desperate enough, you could be killed in the most dishonorable looking circumstances - like shooting unarmed military prisoners.

    But we are not talking about soldiers. We are talking about innocent women and children and seniors....civilians. People being eradicated like cockroaches in gigantic numbers for insane reasons.

    There is no code in any modern military that allows for soldiers to do that to civilians...none.

    And I don't care if the soldiers were threatened or not...(even though people in this thread are saying they were all volunteers)...to just excuse accessory to mass genocide because they were under duress is no excuse and is barbaric.


    Now if you people were saying that these soldiers (assuming there is enough evidence) should stand trial and that any pressures they were under should count as a mitigating circumstance...okay, I can live with that.

    But many of you are NOT saying that.

    Many of you are actually saying that these people should never go on trial. That we should NEVER find out if they actually were guilty or not...regardless of the circumstances.

    None if you were there and yet many of you are deciding that these men must never stand trial...no matter what.

    What kind if whacko form of law and order is that?

    Let's not even look at any cases because the accused probably were under great pressure to do these crimes?

    Let's just say to the victims; 'Sorry, but we will not even look at the cases because we feel sorry for the accused...that they obviously were under great strain and should not be held accountable for their actions...whatever they were.'.
    'But should we not at least find out who did what before we decide that?'
    'No...we are not even going to look at the evidence...we are just going to bury it and move on'.

    All these people died in hideous circumstances and many of you just want to let those who were potentially accessories to that crime walk free without even looking at each case.

    Screw justice. Screw the victims. Screw honor. Let's just forget about it.

    Complete cowardice.

    And if that statement offends people....GOOD.

  2. #172
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    Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

    And since I am being blunt.

    I believe - though I cannot prove - that most/all persons that voted 'no' to this poll did so primarily because they are afraid that they too would have just looked the other way under similar circumstances and that they would not want to be tried themselves should they one day find themselves in a like circumstance.

    I don't think their objection is from any moral code...it's just a knee-jerk reaction to save their own skins should such a situation arise in their own lives.


    Giving into fear is cowardly but completely understandable and forgivable.

    Trying to cover up the consequences of your fears is cowardly...period.



    'cow·ard [kou-erd]
    noun
    1.
    a person who lacks courage in facing danger, difficulty, opposition, pain, etc.; a timid or easily intimidated person.'

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/coward
    Last edited by DA60; 02-22-14 at 03:08 AM.

  3. #173
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    Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Exaggerations aren't persuasive.
    It's not an exaggeration, it is verbatim what is happening. If you had read the article or anything anyone has written here, you'd know that they will convict them of murder regardless of whether they're guilty of anything. Simply being stationed at Auschwitz makes you guilty.

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Yes, if an American soldier stood by and did not at some point report it I would hold that soldier accountable. The soldier could not possibly be court martialed for doing so. No German soldier could have been court martialed for refusing to participate at any level. Nor was this rare for German soldiers to do so.
    Who are you going to report it to? The fuehrer? So all 7,000 of the people stationed at Auschwitz the military base deserve to be tried of murder because they got orders to go there. Of those 7,000, only 120 were assigned to the gas chambers. But I suspect you don't give a ****. **** them they're Germans right? Who cares if they're actually guilty of anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    That is nothing to do with this thread...nothing.

    The point is should these men be put on trial...not whether others would do the same.

    Everyone makes mistakes...but what makes you honorable or not is how you handle those mistakes.

    And to say 'forgive and forget' to people that did illegal things (assuming there is enough evidence to convict them) is borderline inhuman, IMO.

    Soldiers are under a code of conduct. A moral code that they either swear to or are expected to follow...their fears are irrelevant. Laws don't go like; 'you cannot do such and such unless you are really scared or feel threatened.'.
    Sure, they act as mitigating circumstances during sentencing...obviously a guy that just murders someone without any pressure is going to get a stiffer sentence then someone that murders someone under great duress.
    But to just wave a blanket over the whole thing and say 'well, even though I have no first-hand knowledge of what went on there...I think that these guards should never be put on trial - no matter what the evidence - because I think it must have been very difficult for them to refuse orders.'.

    Disgusting and cowardly.


    I have little problem with what soldiers do to other soldiers - within reason. Soldiering is a club to me (which I was once a part of). You join the club and you fight against other 'club' members from other countries. And you all understand going in that there are almost no rules. That if things get desperate enough, you could be killed in the most dishonorable looking circumstances - like shooting unarmed military prisoners.

    But we are not talking about soldiers. We are talking about innocent women and children and seniors....civilians. People being eradicated like cockroaches in gigantic numbers for insane reasons.

    There is no code in any modern military that allows for soldiers to do that to civilians...none.

    And I don't care if the soldiers were threatened or not...(even though people in this thread are saying they were all volunteers)...to just excuse accessory to mass genocide because they were under duress is no excuse and is barbaric.


    Now if you people were saying that these soldiers (assuming there is enough evidence) should stand trial and that any pressures they were under should count as a mitigating circumstance...okay, I can live with that.

    But many of you are NOT saying that.

    Many of you are actually saying that these people should never go on trial. That we should NEVER find out if they actually were guilty or not...regardless of the circumstances.

    None if you were there and yet many of you are deciding that these men must never stand trial...no matter what.

    What kind if whacko form of law and order is that?

    Let's not even look at any cases because the accused probably were under great pressure to do these crimes?

    Let's just say to the victims; 'Sorry, but we will not even look at the cases because we feel sorry for the accused...that they obviously were under great strain and should not be held accountable for their actions...whatever they were.'.
    'But should we not at least find out who did what before we decide that?'
    'No...we are not even going to look at the evidence...we are just going to bury it and move on'.

    All these people died in hideous circumstances and many of you just want to let those who were potentially accessories to that crime walk free without even looking at each case.

    Screw justice. Screw the victims. Screw honor. Let's just forget about it.

    Complete cowardice.

    And if that statement offends people....GOOD.
    Since you're back and calling the straw men you invented cowards, I'll step back in as well. Almost everyone here believes that people that have committed war crimes should be charged with those war crimes. However, you, and the German government, have taken it a step further, and decided to charge people with war crimes for being stationed at a base with war criminals.

    For some reason you don't give a flying rat's ass whether they actually had anything at all to do with the murders, you only seem to care that if they were one of the 7,000 soldiers at Auschwitz during the 1940's, then **** them. As long as we're talking about cowardice, convicting potentially innocent men of murder with no regard to facts is the epitome of cowardice.

    Tell me, what exactly is the difference between a German soldier at Auschwitz and a prisoner? Both were taken from their homes by the German government, against their will, and sent to Auschwitz. If you think that alone is enough to be charged with so serious of a crime, you're hardly better than the Nazis.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

  4. #174
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    Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    Sorry, I mentioned two genocidal countries: Nazi Deutchland and Serbia. Both have been murdering civilians and at various times had various powers.

    Can you please be more specific so as I can understand you better? Which country, with which people in power, at what time, is no longer in power now (they cannot be for 70 years has passed), hence this persecution of Nazies (hope you mean them?) did not took place before?
    In the case of Yugoslawia I have not followed the aftermath closely enough to know how it has been handled. My impression has been that it was spotty, but I don't know.
    In Germany, on the other hand, I followed it relatively closely. As I have related in another thread the handling of criminals from the Nazi period was rather unenthusiastic at best. There were prosecutions. But usually there were none and the involvement of individuals and organizations were treated discreetly and mention of such involvement was severely discouraged as long as the people were in place whose carriers were thanks to Gehlen's and Filbinger's generation. This went as far as refusing repatriation of Nazi documents impounded and removed after the war. Soldiers, politicians, judges, police, spys or mds kept their jobs and extended their careers. The father of a friend had run one of the main extermination hospitals for the handicapped during the execution of that program. He ran it after the war and prospered until his retirement.

    Of course there can be no simple answer to what to do, when practically the whole population and elite were involved or so close to heinous crime. What for instance do you do, when every large company used slaves that had to be regularly replaced after having used them up and exterminated. The police had helped herd the Jews to the cattle cars and the judges and mayors had hanged people for having had sex with slaves or feeding vagrant Jews. What do you do?
    Last edited by joG; 02-22-14 at 07:37 AM.

  5. #175
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    Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    Well frankly if you find it "revolting" that people have the sense to know that it is evil to murder people, and to express that knowledge, then that's your problem.
    You're being obtuse. Willfully, I believe, but obtuse nonetheless. Recognizing the realities of human natures foes not, in any way,shape, or form, equate to approving of said behavior. My comments have everything to do with the realities of human nature, and absolutely zero to do with appropriateness of the topic.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  6. #176
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    Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

    I'd have to agree with previous posters. That is the use of putting old, old men in prison and / or to death?

    At some point in time isn't it just better to 'let go' of this?

    No, I'm not condoning their acts, or the acts of the Reich. I'm just saying isn't there a statute of limitations for most any other crimes? Why not this also?

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    Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

    Arrested ?
    And to what end ?
    I think that most of the Germans know that the wrong thing was done...
    Arrest ??- prosecute ?? any one ...yes
    Hitler and company
    Nazism.......impossible.....and we have this disease as well....
    Knowledge is the answer.

  8. #178
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    Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    I'd have to agree with previous posters. That is the use of putting old, old men in prison and / or to death?

    At some point in time isn't it just better to 'let go' of this?

    No, I'm not condoning their acts, or the acts of the Reich. I'm just saying isn't there a statute of limitations for most any other crimes? Why not this also?
    Because murder doesn't have a statute of limitations.

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    Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

    The worse of this is, we now face the same situations with North Korea. Do we blame the system or the soldier?

  10. #180
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    Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    In the case of Yugoslawia I have not followed the aftermath closely enough to know how it has been handled. My impression has been that it was spotty, but I don't know.
    In Germany, on the other hand, I followed it relatively closely. As I have related in another thread the handling of criminals from the Nazi period was rather unenthusiastic at best. There were prosecutions. But usually there were none and the involvement of individuals and organizations were treated discreetly and mention of such involvement was severely discouraged as long as the people were in place whose carriers were thanks to Gehlen's and Filbinger's generation. This went as far as refusing repatriation of Nazi documents impounded and removed after the war. Soldiers, politicians, judges, police, spys or mds kept their jobs and extended their careers. The father of a friend had run one of the main extermination hospitals for the handicapped during the execution of that program. He ran it after the war and prospered until his retirement.

    Of course there can be no simple answer to what to do, when practically the whole population and elite were involved or so close to heinous crime. What for instance do you do, when every large company used slaves that had to be regularly replaced after having used them up and exterminated. The police had helped herd the Jews to the cattle cars and the judges and mayors had hanged people for having had sex with slaves or feeding vagrant Jews. What do you do?
    But a Chancelor has to go to a specific place annually and ask forgiveness in behalf of their people for what was done to the Jews. Then I hear damage compensation has been by most part covered from the Deutch towards the Jews.
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

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