View Poll Results: Should German WWII vets still be arrested?

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  • Yes

    18 23.68%
  • No

    34 44.74%
  • It depends

    24 31.58%
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Thread: Should German WWII vets be arrested?[W:260]

  1. #131
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    Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    To which distance from "pulling the trigger" do you think the perps should have to stand in court? Remember that it is prevention of the next atrocities that the punishment is for. It is all about not letting situations like that occur.
    42.



    Good day.

  2. #132
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    Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    The reason that it has come up now is that it was not pursued earlier. There are no important people in power that were criminals at that time anymore. So the resistance to outing and punishment has declined.
    Sorry, I mentioned two genocidal countries: Nazi Deutchland and Serbia. Both have been murdering civilians and at various times had various powers.

    Can you please be more specific so as I can understand you better? Which country, with which people in power, at what time, is no longer in power now (they cannot be for 70 years has passed), hence this persecution of Nazies (hope you mean them?) did not took place before?
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  3. #133
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    Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

    Quote Originally Posted by Voltaire X View Post
    Germany is STILL arresting WW2 vets because they were stationed at concentration camps.

    BBC News - Germany arrests three suspected Auschwitz guards

    Three men aged 88, 92 and 94 have been detained by German authorities on suspicion of being guards at the Nazi death camp at Auschwitz.

    The homes of a number of men were raided in three German states, months after prosecutors investigating Nazi-era war crimes announced they were recommending charges against 30 people.



    Is this fair? The youngest of the three would have been probably born in 1926, making him no older than 19 when the war ended. Additionally, it's not like these guys volunteered for the war, or even to be guards at Auschwitz. They were forced into it; almost every German male of military age was forced into fighting for the Third Reich. I don't think it's right for us to do this. It's ridiculous for a bunch of people lucky enough to be born in the post-war era to go back and persecute these people for things that happened 70 years ago, especially since these people couldn't have possibly hoped to stop anything. What would have happened if they refused to be guards at Auschwitz? They would have probably just been executed on the spot for refusing to obey orders.
    Mm. That's a very good question. There's great arguments on both sides. On the one hand, there's no statute of limitations on participating in genocide, nor should there be...but on the other hand, it is true that these were just kids when they were drafted and ordered what to do, what to say, what to think.

    I remember one day, in the wee hours of the morning, that we had the Shellback ceremony on board the USS Camden. There was one kid, a wog (meaning, one who had never crossed the equator before) who was not well liked by the crew. He had been told to get up on a capstan and we activated it to where it turned round and round, and we shellbacks were in a circle around the capstan hitting his backside with our shillelaghs...and we did so for several minutes - we were getting to the point of cruelty. The Chief Master-at-Arms saw what was going on and stopped us and took him out of the ceremony and made sure he got credit for getting through the entire ceremony.

    I look back on that day and - though I still support the Shellback ceremony - I see that we were flat wrong in what we did to that kid. But more to the issue, I'm normally a gentle person who eschews violence (I've thrown one punch since the 9th grade)...but I was drawn into what was going on - I found out that I, too, was susceptible to mob psychology...and to this day I'm honestly frightened by it, by the realization that I, too, can be part of a violent, malicious mob given the right circumstances.

    So what happens if the cruelty of the mob is government-sanctioned? That's what was going on in those days. Those kids were made part of that mob, told that they must support that mob, told what to say, what to think, and when they did so, they were rewarded for it...

    ...and thus the mob rules. For this reason, I think the men - who were in those days just kids doing what to do, say, think - should be forgiven, and allowed to get on with what remains of their lives.
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  4. #134
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    Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    I never said that nonsense and you know it...you are now putting words in my mouth.

    I thought you were better then that...I see I was wrong.

    So be it.


    You have NO WAY of knowing the degree of guilt of those being considered for charge..so save the 'they are all innocent' nonsense...because you were not there and you CANNOT know their guilt or innocence...that is up to a judge/jury to decide...not you or I.


    I will not be reading any more of your posts on this subject as this is going nowhere fast.

    Good day.
    I made it very clear to you from the article that they were charging them with accessory to murder regardless of whether they had anything to do with it or not. You have applauded this and argued for it. So yes, that is EXACTLY, verbatim what you said you want.

    I'm sorry, I can't rationalize charging someone with murder that had nothing to do with the murders.


    A court decided that by being a worker at a concentration camp he was guilty of being an accessory to murder. This meant that courts did not have to prove active participation in killing to find a suspect guilty of murder, BBC Berlin correspondent Stephen Evans reports.
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  5. #135
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    Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

    Quote Originally Posted by Proud South Korean View Post
    To what end? Go hide and have a high chance of being caught? Remember Germany was totalitarian which made surveillance and capture much more easier.
    Anyways, we're talking about concentration camp guards. In the middle of Germany at the center of extremely tight security, they probably would have been caught and killed anyway. The only chance they might have had was to volunteer for the Waffen SS (many units were composed of former concentration camp guards and some of its most famous commanders-Theodore Eicke and others came from the camps) and desert at the first chance. Either way it's between a rock and a hard place.
    Many did, if its a choice between an 80-90 percent chance of your own death or imprisonment or the deaths of hundreds of others then choosing the latter is extremely selfish.

  6. #136
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    Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    Many did, if its a choice between an 80-90 percent chance of your own death or imprisonment or the deaths of hundreds of others then choosing the latter is extremely selfish.
    I agree but if my family was threatened, I wouldn't carry out the task and rather commit suicide.
    Then again, most if not all concentration camp guards volunteered so the entire hypothetical is technically incorrect.
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    Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    Because it sends a message, that murder is one of the most serious crimes and that you can't get away with it by evading the authorities for a certain number of years.
    "Oh look! Some German WWII veterans were pardoned from being accessories to murder because it has been a long time! I'm going to kill someone now!

    It's not like people would turn themselves in when they remember these arrests that were made. What type of criminal would think "Oh, I'm going to turn myself in now because I don't want to risk that (less than) 1% chance of being found guilty 70 years later and having to serve my time during my final days with my withered body."?

  8. #138
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    Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

    It's easy enough to say you'd make like a superhero as you type away on your keyboard, free from any such threats. I believe that, given the option of saving your own skin along with that of your family's, or taking the life of a complete stranger, most of us would fold in a heartbeat. This is what happened in Germany. I daresay most of the German population were sickened at what they must have known was going on, but turned a blind eye for fear of reprisals. This is always the way of it. No one condones that ****, but everyone's intimidated. Disappearances, torture and murder were daily life. In that situation, the majority will always batten down the hatches and wait out the storm, until someone puts a stop to it. Or until such time as it goes on long enough to provoke revolt.

    Delusions of playing Rambo are juvenile and, quite frankly, unconvincing.

  9. #139
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    Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoC_T View Post
    It's easy enough to say you'd make like a superhero as you type away on your keyboard, free from any such threats. I believe that, given the option of saving your own skin along with that of your family's, or taking the life of a complete stranger, most of us would fold in a heartbeat. This is what happened in Germany. I daresay most of the German population were sickened at what they must have known was going on, but turned a blind eye for fear of reprisals. This is always the way of it. No one condones that ****, but everyone's intimidated. Disappearances, torture and murder were daily life. In that situation, the majority will always batten down the hatches and wait out the storm, until someone puts a stop to it. Or until such time as it goes on long enough to provoke revolt.

    Delusions of playing Rambo are juvenile and, quite frankly, unconvincing.
    Thankfully the legal system disagrees with you.

  10. #140
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    Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    Thankfully the legal system disagrees with you.
    The German people wouldn't have.

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