View Poll Results: Should German WWII vets still be arrested?

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  • Yes

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Thread: Should German WWII vets be arrested?[W:260]

  1. #91
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    Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    An"asshole"? That is a friendly thing to say about the man. And I find your argumentation rather odd in an other thing. I had stated criminality and not the method to deal with it. For some reason you brought up the absurd proposal and put it in my mouth. I will not speculate on you motives.
    I didn't make any such proposal, I repeated exactly what you said. You believe all voting age Germans during that period should be tried for murder. Considering how much you and I differ in opinion, we can't even possibly debate the actual topic at hand.

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Nope, that's over the line.

    I believe in holding people responsible for [U]what they have done, or ordered done (Which is the same as doing it yourself.).
    Good, now that we've recognized that you're not a ridiculous extremist like JoG, we can have an actual conversation about the OP instead of going off on one of her tangents.

    The article states:

    A court decided that by being a worker at a concentration camp he was guilty of being an accessory to murder. This meant that courts did not have to prove active participation in killing to find a suspect guilty of murder, BBC Berlin correspondent Stephen Evans reports.
    Essentially, the courts are trying him for being stationed at Auschwitz, not for any evidence of actual wrong doing. I'm all about trying war criminals with evidence for their crimes, but the German government rounding up everyone who happened to be ordered to Auschwitz by the German government, and trying them for murder, is absolutely absurd.

    One of the guys being tried was 19 at the time. Likely fresh off the train to his first station when the Soviets arrived. How many actual trigger-men did they need? The camp is huge, only a small fraction of those stationed there had actually anything to do with the extermination process. Why is that information completely irrelevant? How is manning a guard post the same as murder?
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

  2. #92
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    Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    I didn't make any such proposal, I repeated exactly what you said. You believe all voting age Germans during that period should be tried for murder. Considering how much you and I differ in opinion, we can't even possibly debate the actual topic at hand.



    Good, now that we've recognized that you're not a ridiculous extremist like JoG, we can have an actual conversation about the OP instead of going off on one of her tangents.

    The article states:



    Essentially, the courts are trying him for being stationed at Auschwitz, not for any evidence of actual wrong doing. I'm all about trying war criminals with evidence for their crimes, but the German government rounding up everyone who happened to be ordered to Auschwitz by the German government, and trying them for murder, is absolutely absurd.

    One of the guys being tried was 19 at the time. Likely fresh off the train to his first station when the Soviets arrived. How many actual trigger-men did they need? The camp is huge, only a small fraction of those stationed there had actually anything to do with the extermination process. Why is that information completely irrelevant? How is manning a guard post the same as murder?
    I wonder what your agenda is. Participation in and financing of mass murder should not be a crime? That is rather perverse and yes, radical.
    And misrepresenting, what was said is abnoxious.

  3. #93
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    Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    I wonder what your agenda is. Participation in and financing of mass murder should not be a crime? That is rather perverse and yes, radical.
    Please go away. Nobody else here thinks that all Germans should be tried for murder for the holocaust. You're being ridiculous, and I feel like you're trolling me.

    I'll respond when you provide a precedent where an entire population has been charged in a court of law for the crimes of their politicians.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

  4. #94
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    Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Please go away. Nobody else here thinks that all Germans should be tried for murder for the holocaust. You're being ridiculous, and I feel like you're trolling me.

    I'll respond when you provide a precedent where an entire population has been charged in a court of law for the crimes of their politicians.
    You seem to have a real problem understanding, what was said. It seems a rather unpleasant character that would twist what was said to fit your agenda. And that is exactly, what you do in making your preposterous proposal of trails of every person, something that you adopted to make a point and now put in my mouth.

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    Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    You seem to have a real problem understanding, what was said. It seems a rather unpleasant character that would twist what was said to fit your agenda. And that is exactly, what you do in making your preposterous proposal of trails of every person, something that you adopted to make a point and now put in my mouth.
    Seeing as how I'm done with you, I'll just post our conversation verbatim and let other people judge for themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    They made their choice, when they voted for and allowed the writer of Mein Kampf and owner of the SA to be head of government. Every individual in a democracy is responsible for the actions of his or her government. And even in the army, I personally don't think that chain of command justifies participation in mass murder.
    And don't forget. This guy was not lying. He set out pretty much in detail, what he planned to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Ok, so we should start drafting the paperwork to try every German citizen born before 1939 with murder. When we're done with that, we can start drafting up the paperwork to charge all Americans with murder for all the murders that have been committed by our government in our names.
    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Oh, did anyone ever tell you democracy was easy sailing?
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    He got about a third of the vote and the two thirds allowed him to have power. This is the man who had publish the bestseller Mein Kampf. 'Ever read the tomb? Allowing that man to gain power was criminal. Of course, not every German was equally criminal just like not every member of the mafia is equally responsible for each murder.
    Allowed? Nobody allowed him to gain power, he grabbed power and nothing else. He forced all other competition (from the left side of the political hemisphere) out of the race by jailing people and scaring others out of the race.

    The German people as a whole are not guilty for the crimes of Adolf Hilter and his NSDAP cronies.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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    Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Seeing as how I'm done with you, I'll just post our conversation verbatim and let other people judge for themselves.
    And as you see, I did not propose bringing every German to court. That was your fabrication. There are many ways to deal with criminal behavior of whole populations. But instead of thinking about that, you went off on a rabid rampage.

    But you are right in one thing. I do not think it sensible to continue to conversation.

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    Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    Allowed? Nobody allowed him to gain power, he grabbed power and nothing else. He forced all other competition (from the left side of the political hemisphere) out of the race by jailing people and scaring others out of the race.

    The German people as a whole are not guilty for the crimes of Adolf Hilter and his NSDAP cronies.
    Trying to reason with joG is frankly a waste of time. She's so blinded by her hate for Germans that she completely forgets that her solution would effect her as well. Imagine everyone in America being punished for the actions of our leaders.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    Allowed? Nobody allowed him to gain power, he grabbed power and nothing else. He forced all other competition (from the left side of the political hemisphere) out of the race by jailing people and scaring others out of the race.

    The German people as a whole are not guilty for the crimes of Adolf Hilter and his NSDAP cronies.
    As I pointed out people did resist and many died doing so. They were not responsible for the crimes.

    But the man was voted into parliament and hoisted into power by democratic means. He had published his agenda. Everybody could read it and he had demonstrated that he meant what he had written. Anyone who did not resist, but paid loyally and thus enabled the country to do what the Führer had written that he would do was responsible. That he seized power once he was head of the government does not reduce the responsibility of the people.

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    Re: Should German WWII vets be arrested?

    Quote Originally Posted by Del Zeppnile View Post
    All military orders still require a person to use their common sense and humanity before following, so it's not that simple. If a commanding officer orders you to slaughter prisoners or non-combatants that would be an illegal order, and you would have no defense against your participation unless you could prove duress, or some other compelling strategic reason that required you to follow that order. For example: a covert team is behind enemy lines and a combatant surrenders to them, but they have no way of securing that prisoner without compromising the mission and possibly costing lives. In that unfortunate circumstance you might have an out.
    As has been pointed out before, coercion and necessity are not defenses to murder.

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