View Poll Results: Are you forr or againstt Right to Work laws?

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Thread: Are you forr or againstt Right to Work laws?

  1. #21
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    Re: Are you forr or againstt Right to Work laws?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Closed shop supporters claim it weakens workers bargaining power and to eliminate what they call free riders. Free riders are basically people who get the benefits of a union without union participation.Like if hypothetically a union got a company to agree to a 4 week vacation for new employees and a 2 dollar shift deferential.If that company decided to extend those benefits to non-union employees, that would be a form of free riding.
    I'll have to inquire about this. AFAIK, some jobs, like Culinary, are 100% Union but I'll find out how this works.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    All employees are "At Will" if there isn't an employment contract, and that is the way it should be. If a person wants to enter into an employment contract which gives both parties rights as well as defines the duties of each party, then that's great. But many employees wouldn't want to be required by contract to meet a minimum level of production or work level, so employment contracts are only a normal tool at management levels.

    If an employee is prepared to make a legal commitment to the employer, then the employer should be willing to make a legal commitment to the employee. Short of that, it's "At Will" for both parties. The employee can quit to pursue a higher pay or a better hours job or for whatever reason they choose, and the employer can fire (or layoff) the employee (the employee is eligible for unemployment if this happens) and either hire another employee to replace them or reduce the companies overhead through attrition by not filling the open position.

    At Will is an important part of almost every business model, even and especially for the employees to have their own freedom as well.
    Just as I don't think it's OK to quit without proper notice, I don't think it's OK to terminate without reason. Obviously, just an opinion©.

  2. #22
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    Re: Are you forr or againstt Right to Work laws?

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    Just as I don't think it's OK to quit without proper notice, I don't think it's OK to terminate without reason. Obviously, just an opinion©.
    I agree to a point.

    First, there's a huge difference between having the freedom to quit at any point in time (even with giving a notice) and an employer not being able to terminate an employee unless they have a reason the employee or others understands or feel is legitimate. This puts an undue restraint on the employer and their company when it comes to making choices that they feel is in the best interest of their company.

    Second, if an employee is terminated, there was a reason or the employee wouldn't have been terminated. The employee may not agree with that reason. And, the reason may be totally ridiculous, as in your excellent example in an earlier post of the pit boss cleaning house to hire his buddies (this should be addressed by company practices and procedures). But, the employee can still leave at any time they want to for whatever reason they want, even if the employer feels it was a ridiculous reason, so the employer and employee have the same level of power over their own future.

    Third, as to a notice given by either the employee or employer... An employer cannot give notice of a termination with a delay in departure in most instances since the employer would be opening themselves to sabotage or worse by a potentially disgruntled soon to be ex-employee. In the case of a mass layoff, notice is historically given to the entirety of the workforce that it's coming, but the individuals that will be furloughed are usually not informed until the day it actually occurs. As to the employee giving notice to the employer of their quitting, this has historically been done as a professional courtesy to ensure a good reference be given by their soon to be previous employer to potential new employers. If the employee gets p'ed off at the employer and leaves on bad terms, they probably wont give notice, walk out that minute, and not care about the reference from that job.

  3. #23
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    Re: Are you forr or againstt Right to Work laws?

    OK, I made some calls to people I know that work for the Casinos. Here is my anecdotal information.

    Almost all "hourly workers" are in a Union. They do NOT have to join the Union or pay dues to receive the exact same benefits but the Union will not defend them if they get in trouble whereas paid Union members will have better representation.

    98% of all these workers are indeed Union members. Why asked Specklebang? Why would you pay for something that is potentially free?

    The answer (educated guess) is that it is out of loyalty, intimidation and stupidity (a snarky comment - not a fact) has caused virtually everyone to sign up.

    So, it seems not to matter too much and people like the perceived safety of Union membership.

    I have issues with fairness. I believe you should "pay your way". I think if I worked in a Union job, I would be comfortable paying the dues, just about as comfortable as I feel about paying taxes. I don't WANT to pay taxes or dues or anything, but I'm philosophical about it. (That's why I'm a DISCOUNT Philosopher, not a particularly good one).

    Apparently, 98% of the people feel the way I do and this comfort or confidence is worth the price of the ticket, they join so it would seem that "right to work" is not harmful and gives us a rarely seen glimpse of personal choice in an increasingly micromanaged society.

  4. #24
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    Re: Are you forr or againstt Right to Work laws?

    I'm in favor of right to work laws IF they come with a corresponding laws that doesn't require unions to represent people who don't pay dues. I don't like the current situation where people can refuse to pay union dues but the union is still required by law to represent them.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

  5. #25
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    Re: Are you forr or againstt Right to Work laws?

    Unions are protected under the 1st amendment but no one should be compelled to join one.

  6. #26
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    Re: Are you forr or againstt Right to Work laws?

    100% Pro-Right-to-Work.

    Unions can be a really great thing that can even out the playing field, but no one should be coerced into joining one. Forced association is not free association.
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  7. #27
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    Re: Are you forr or againstt Right to Work laws?

    I do not support any person or business having to keep an employee that they no longer wish to employ.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
    Stephen R. Covey


  8. #28
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    Re: Are you forr or againstt Right to Work laws?

    I'm against adding extra letters to words.

  9. #29
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    Re: Are you forr or againstt Right to Work laws?

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    I'm in favor of right to work laws IF they come with a corresponding laws that doesn't require unions to represent people who don't pay dues. I don't like the current situation where people can refuse to pay union dues but the union is still required by law to represent them.
    I might be inclined to agree, but are unions today required to "represent" non-union employees or is what unions negotiate for their members also required to be applied to non-union workers. I don't see that necessarily as representation, but I do not know the current requirements.

  10. #30
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    Re: Are you forr or againstt Right to Work laws?

    I am neither for nor against.

    If I am against anything, it would have to do with carefully crafted framing techniques, the origins of which being in various think tanks created by those with a vested interest in shaping public opinion.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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