View Poll Results: Are you forr or againstt Right to Work laws?

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Thread: Are you forr or againstt Right to Work laws?

  1. #11
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    Re: Are you forr or againstt Right to Work laws?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    This.

    I've disliked unions since I was 19 years old. The only Corporate American job I ever had was with the phone company. I had to join the union. I hated that I was forced to pay to some business entity to negotiate on my behalf. And hold me back. And write my rules. Even at 19, I got it. And still do.

    I don't mind them in the private sector. Public sector? I think they should be illegal.
    I have no problems with people joining unions as long as it is their choice. I think public sector union contracts should be voted on by the tax payers since they are ones footing the bill.And things like tenure and trial de novas to fire employees should be eliminated.It shouldn't cost an arm and a leg to fire a bad employee.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  2. #12
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    Re: Are you forr or againstt Right to Work laws?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Basically a person has a right to work without union representation.
    I have confused "Right To Work with "At Will". I've just done some quick scanning by Google and I would say that I don't see that "Right To Work" makes much difference. It seems that you get the option of not being in the Union, which should be your right. Most jobs here are Union, so apparently it isn't a problem.

    I do have less support for "At Will" laws because they are unfair (IMHO). If you terminate someone, there should be a valid reason, not just that you want to give your buddy someones job if they are doing their job correctly.

  3. #13
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    Re: Are you forr or againstt Right to Work laws?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Where do you stand on this important issue and why?
    All you have to do is look at my country's manufacturing history in the 1970's to see where over-powerful unions and union practices beggared us and made us the sick man of Europe.

    It took Maggie Thatcher to stand up to the unions and close down on closed shop and other practices which had nothing to do with building our manufacturing and had everything to do with making it hard to change working practice or get rid of incompetent workers.

    Never again for the UK.

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    Re: Are you forr or againstt Right to Work laws?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Right to work laws simply mean that closed shops are illegal. A closed shop is where union membership or paying union dues is a mandatory condition of employment of that place that is a closed shop.
    Then I think I support the Right To Work laws although they don't seem to apply here in reality. I'll have to learn more, but I don't see why you should be forced into a Union.

  5. #15
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    Re: Are you forr or againstt Right to Work laws?

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    Then I think I support the Right To Work laws although they don't seem to apply here in reality. I'll have to learn more, but I don't see why you should be forced into a Union.
    Because employers should be able to hire and fire whoever they like, unless unions are involved.
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    Re: Are you forr or againstt Right to Work laws?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    I'm a liberal, of course I'm for those laws. It regulates relationships between two private entities. Why should a business and a union be able to enter into a contract I disagree with? We need more regulation!
    Just pile it on!

  7. #17
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    Re: Are you forr or againstt Right to Work laws?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Many years ago unions performed a necessary service for the employees but they have long ago outlived out their usefulness.
    For what it's worth, there are a GREAT many people who disagree with that.

    I work in a largely unionized profession (librarianship) and as such participate in a number of discussion forums where the overwhelming majority of the membership is unionized.

    I know a lot of people who benefit (or at least those who claim to benefit, though I see no reason why they'd be lying about it) from unions in a real and tangible way on a regular basis.

    Personally, I'm not union labor. I'll never be union labor. I don't work in a public or academic library in large part because, living in a non right to work state (NJ), doing so would expose me to labor unionism.

    I support right to work laws and I oppose public unions.

    But to say that unions have outlived their usefulness or that they're no longer relevant is shortsighted.

    I just prefer to be judged on my merits, to negotiate for my own compensation, and to address issues with my employers directly.

    I prefer not to be beholden to a union or to feel as though I need "the collective" holding my hand.

    For folks who feel differently, for those who may not be confident in the product they deliver, for those who aren't assertive enough to stand up for themselves, for those living paycheck to paycheck and can't afford an extended hiatus from employment that may come from not toeing what they feel to be an unreasonable line, I think a union might be just the thing and it might benefit them tremendously.
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  8. #18
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    Re: Are you forr or againstt Right to Work laws?

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    Then I think I support the Right To Work laws although they don't seem to apply here in reality. I'll have to learn more, but I don't see why you should be forced into a Union.
    Closed shop supporters claim it weakens workers bargaining power and to eliminate what they call free riders. Free riders are basically people who get the benefits of a union without union participation.Like if hypothetically a union got a company to agree to a 4 week vacation for new employees and a 2 dollar shift deferential.If that company decided to extend those benefits to non-union employees, that would be a form of free riding.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  9. #19
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    Re: Are you forr or againstt Right to Work laws?

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    ...

    I do have less support for "At Will" laws because they are unfair (IMHO). If you terminate someone, there should be a valid reason, not just that you want to give your buddy someones job if they are doing their job correctly.
    All employees are "At Will" if there isn't an employment contract, and that is the way it should be. If a person wants to enter into an employment contract which gives both parties rights as well as defines the duties of each party, then that's great. But many employees wouldn't want to be required by contract to meet a minimum level of production or work level, so employment contracts are only a normal tool at management levels.

    If an employee is prepared to make a legal commitment to the employer, then the employer should be willing to make a legal commitment to the employee. Short of that, it's "At Will" for both parties. The employee can quit to pursue a higher pay or a better hours job or for whatever reason they choose, and the employer can fire (or layoff) the employee (the employee is eligible for unemployment if this happens) and either hire another employee to replace them or reduce the companies overhead through attrition by not filling the open position.

    At Will is an important part of almost every business model, even and especially for the employees to have their own freedom as well.

  10. #20
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    Re: Are you forr or againstt Right to Work laws?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    Because employers should be able to hire and fire whoever they like, unless unions are involved.
    I've seen the abuse of this "law" where a new pit boss was hired and immediately fired excellent employees so he could bring his friend on board. IMHO, you should be able to terminate - but with a legitimate reason, not just "because you can".

    I also don't think it's fair that an employer should be forced to keep a provably incompetent employee just because of a Union either.

    What ever happened to "fairness"?

    In practice, I think that arbitrary termination leaves you vulnerable to lawsuit - and I agree that such terminations are wrong. Yes, I've been an employer and I've fired people but they did something in violation of policy (such as bringing drugs on property).

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