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Rape and Clothing

Rape and clothing correlation

  • I suspect women are wearing revealing clothes in most rape cases

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I suspect that a man/woman will rape regardless of the victims clothing

    Votes: 24 26.4%
  • I think some women are inviting dangerous attention when wearing revealing attire

    Votes: 5 5.5%
  • I don't think clothes have anything to do with rape

    Votes: 52 57.1%
  • Other

    Votes: 10 11.0%

  • Total voters
    91
I guess I would. However, given the scenario you provided, I wouldn't have any reason to suspect he might be up to no good in the first place.

... And who's to say that if he did try flirting with you for a few seconds you wouldn't have brushed it off? After all...what are the odds? Oh and some men....They don't give off any flirtatious warning signs either.
 
Let's just agree that, just like with any individuals, different rapists might be attracted to different multiple variable things. As such, to place "responsibility" on the victim because of her clothing is preposterous!
 
Do you think when women go out on dates, they expect to be raped by their date?

If a guy just rapes you out of the blue without warning, there's not exactly a whole lot you can do about that. :shrug:

However, that wasn't really what I was talking about here in the first place. I was talking about circumstances that a woman actually can control.

Anyone is capable of, and ideally should, moderate their behavior, environment, substance consumption, company, and style of dress. That's simple common sense.
 
Then they should do it. Hell, I wouldn't convict them if I was on the jury and that is why she did it. If women started tying rapist to chairs and feeding them their genitals that the woman just cut off, there would be a lot less rapist in the world. If she needs to learn how to get them into the chair, Dexter and lots of movies give really good workable solutions.

But then they have to court and PROVE that they were raped somehow.
 
It is our current culture, which is exactly what most young people base their ideas of "acceptable behavior" off of. :roll:

The simple fact of the matter is that restraint, safety, and personal responsibility really aren't ideas that are in vogue right now. What young people are most often encouraged to live is a modern re-enactment of Sodom and Gomorrah.



I never said that we should. I said that our culture has a very flawed way at looking at sexuality among young people, and that this can have a tendency to exacerbate problems like date rape.



Again, Chris, clothing and behavior can be, and often are contributing factors to the circumstances leading up to sexual assaults and date rape.

If women want to be safe, they have to acknowledge this reality, and plan accordingly.

Quibbling around with "blame games" isn't productive. The simple fact of the matter is that a young woman out on the town needs to be in control of her behavior and take precautions to ensure her own safety.

Exactly because the only person to "blame" is the person who cannot control himself, the rapist. The victim is NOT responsible for being raped.
 
If a guy just rapes you out of the blue without warning, there's not exactly a whole lot you can do about that. :shrug:

However, that wasn't really what I was talking about here in the first place. I was talking about circumstances that a woman actually can control.

Anyone is capable of, and ideally should, moderate their behavior, environment, substance consumption, company, and style of dress. That's simple common sense.

They CAN, but if they choose not to or do not for some reason, that does not mean they should be held responsible when another person commits a crime against them. We don't do that with ANY other crimes.
 
Again, Chris, clothing and behavior can be, and often are contributing factors to the circumstances leading up to sexual assaults and date rape.

If women want to be safe, they have to acknowledge this reality, and plan accordingly.

Quibbling around with "blame games" isn't productive. The simple fact of the matter is that a young woman out on the town needs to be in control of her behavior and take precautions to ensure her own safety.

IT is NOT a reality - that's the whole problem here with this - it is NOT a reality. It is BULL****.

It's a MYTH.

It is not REAL.

It means NOTHING.

It won't save a woman from being raped no matter WHAT.

Okay?

The sooner you accept that it's bull**** the sooner you can move on to accepting the REAL issues to ward against and be on the lookout for.

Myth Women who are sexually assaulted 'ask for it' by the way they dress or act, rape only happens to young women.

Fact Many women are led to believe that if they are not part of a certain category of women then they are 'safe' from being raped. Women and girls of all ages, classes, culture, ability, sexuality, race and faith are raped. Attractiveness has little significance. Reports show that there is a great diversity in the way targeted women act or dress. Rapists choose women based on their vulnerability not their physical appearance.

Sometimes women see themselves as 'unworthy' or 'undesirable' because of their age or physical appearance and therefore 'safe' from rape. Some men joke or make comments about women's appearances or age to indicate whether she is sexually desirable or available, or as part of their defence in court, saying he thought 'he was doing her a favour', using her appearance or age. Women are raped from the age of three to ninety three. Rape is an act of violence not sex.

Okay - get that? Can you READ THAT? OLD GRANNIES and LITTLE GIRLS get raped wearing moomoos and scummy clothes.

Just because some asshole rapist says "SHE WAS DRESSED SEXILY" doesn't mean ****. Why in the **** are you buying into it? Goddamn - get the **** past that. It's like a curb that's two inches high. Holy ****!
 
... And who's to say that if he did try flirting with you for a few seconds you wouldn't have brushed it off? After all...what are the odds? Oh and some men....They don't give off any flirtatious warning signs either.

Okay, but I was never suggesting that women were to blame for their rapes anyway.

I was simply saying that there are certain precautions a woman can take to make her less vulnerable to certain kinds of rapes. They should be encouraged to make use of them whenever possible, and not evade the subject by being told that men can be counted on to control themselves.

Let's just agree that, just like with any individuals, different rapists might be attracted to different multiple variable things. As such, to place "responsibility" on the victim because of her clothing is preposterous!

That's all I was saying in the first place. :shrug:

Not all rapists are obvious creeps, or have even necessarily raped before. There are a lot of different factors that can push a man over the edge in this regard.

Assuming that they're all just power-tripping masterminds deliberately scoping out targets is a bit naïve, IMO. Sometimes rapes escalate out of simple misunderstandings with horny and intoxicated men who aren't very receptive to hearing the word "no."
 
Okay, but I was never suggesting that women were to blame for their rapes anyway.

I was simply saying that there are certain precautions a woman can take to make her less vulnerable to certain kinds of rapes. They should be encouraged to make use of them whenever possible, and not evade the subject by being told that men can be counted on to control themselves.

Well when you claim it's 'about the wardrobe choices' then - yeah - you are saying they're to blame for their own rape. ("My god, woman, if you wore the LONG skirt instead of the SHORT skirt it wouldn't have happened!")

It won't make them any more or less vulnerable: clothing and how it's attractive is pure opinion which varies widely. AND rape isn't about *the visual appeal* - it's about *the psychological appeal*

Read some rape fantasies and tell me how much visuals play into anything - it DOESN'T. It's about control over another person and NOT their own self. You think it goes this way: "You look hot in that skirt - now I'm horny and I'm going to **** you" . . . NO! That is not what happens!
 
Okay, but I was never suggesting that women were to blame for their rapes anyway.

I was simply saying that there are certain precautions a woman can take to make her less vulnerable to certain kinds of rapes. They should be encouraged to make use of them whenever possible, and not evade the subject by being told that men can be counted on to control themselves.



That's all I was saying in the first place. :shrug:

Not all rapists are obvious creeps, or have even necessarily raped before. There are a lot of different factors that can push a man over the edge in this regard.

Assuming that they're all just power-tripping masterminds deliberately scoping out targets is a bit naïve, IMO. Sometimes rapes escalate out of simple misunderstandings with horny and intoxicated men who aren't very receptive to hearing the word "no."

Then, YES, he is a CREEP and a rapist.
 
Well when you claim it's 'about the wardrobe choices' then - yeah - you are saying they're to blame for their own rape. ("My god, woman, if you wore the LONG skirt instead of the SHORT skirt it wouldn't have happened!")

It won't make them any more or less vulnerable: clothing and how it's attractive is pure opinion which varies widely. AND rape isn't about *the visual appeal* - it's about *the psychological appeal*

Read some rape fantasies and tell me how much visuals play into anything - it DOESN'T. It's about control over another person and NOT their own self. You think it goes this way: "You look hot in that skirt - now I'm horny and I'm going to **** you" . . . NO! That is not what happens!

I think I read before that the most common victims of rape are actually street-level prostitutes.

Those street hookers are usually not attractive and are not dressed to attract attention, so as not to attract the police. Also, they offer sex for cheap money and even for trade, so obviously rape, in most instances, is not about sex or attractiveness.

Edit: OR clothing I should add.
 
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Exactly because the only person to "blame" is the person who cannot control himself, the rapist. The victim is NOT responsible for being raped.

I never once said that they were. I said that they should take precautions to ensure their own safety.

They CAN, but if they choose not to or do not for some reason, that does not mean they should be held responsible when another person commits a crime against them. We don't do that with ANY other crimes.

Again, this whole way of thinking simply strikes me as being problematic. It sends mixed messages.

It basically reads like "I don't have to behave responsibly, because men should behave themselves."

Well... I'm sorry, but that's simply not going to happen. Right or wrong, it's simply not.

As such, repeating this kind of "wishful thinking" is effectively worthless. :shrug:

Teach prevention and responsible behavior and leave things at that. No rapist is getting off on the "she was asking for it" defense these days anyway.

IT is NOT a reality - that's the whole problem here with this - it is NOT a reality. It is BULL****.

It's a MYTH.

It is not REAL.

It means NOTHING.

It won't save a woman from being raped no matter WHAT.

Okay?

The sooner you accept that it's bull**** the sooner you can move on to accepting the REAL issues to ward against and be on the lookout for.



Okay - get that? Can you READ THAT? OLD GRANNIES and LITTLE GIRLS get raped wearing moomoos and scummy clothes.

Just because some asshole rapist says "SHE WAS DRESSED SEXILY" doesn't mean ****. Why in the **** are you buying into it? Goddamn - get the **** past that. It's like a curb that's two inches high. Holy ****!

Clothing and behavior do play a role in some rapes, and some rapes legitimately can be prevented if a woman simply takes the precautions necessary to defend herself.

This is especially the case with date rapes, which is what I am discussing right now.

Rape prevention strategies are not a "myth." They are common sense.
 
I think I read before that the most common victims of rape are actually street-level prostitutes.

And unlike what Gathom is trying to say (that it's about being 'pushed over the edge' as if men who are sexually aroused lose all ability to not do something because their brains melt to mush) this makes sense because prostitutes are *easy victims* for those who are intent on raping.

Crime of opportunity = finding those who are easy targets with minimal *risk* . . . a prostitute is the *least likely* to report the assault because her activities are illegal themselves.

I don't believe for one second that a man who rapes a prostitute entered the situation with the idea of treating her with decent respect until - oh man - she rolled her eyes or something stupid like that.
 
I never once said that they were. I said that they should take precautions to ensure their own safety.

And if they do NOT, that doesn't mean they are responsible for a man making the conscious decision to rape them.


Again, this whole way of thinking simply strikes me as being problematic. It sends mixed messages.

It basically reads like "I don't have to behave responsibly, because men should behave themselves."

Well... I'm sorry, but that's simply not going to happen. Right or wrong, it's simply not.

As such, repeating this kind of "wishful thinking" is effectively worthless. :shrug:

Teach prevention and responsibility and leave things at that. No rapist is getting off on the "she was asking for it" defense these days anyway.

Just like you said about rapists, it is NOT a perfect world, and people are never going to be perfect.
 
I never once said that they were. I said that they should take precautions to ensure their own safety.



Again, this whole way of thinking simply strikes me as being problematic. It sends mixed messages.

It basically reads like "I don't have to behave responsibly, because men should behave themselves."

Well... I'm sorry, but that's simply not going to happen. Right or wrong, it's simply not.

As such, repeating this kind of "wishful thinking" is effectively worthless. :shrug:

Teach prevention and responsible behavior and leave things at that. No rapist is getting off on the "she was asking for it" defense these days anyway.



Clothing and behavior do play a role in some rapes, and some rapes legitimately can be prevented if a woman simply takes the precautions necessary to defend herself.

This is especially the case with date rapes, which is what I am discussing right now.

Rape prevention strategies are not a "myth." They are common sense.

So: wear a box on a date so he doesn't rape you.

There's nothing wrong with a woman looking DECENT or NICE - mmmkay? Unless you're willing to date long term a woman who always wears the fugliest clothes you shouldn't spout that type of ****.

Unless you're here saying that you admittedly behave like a caveman lunatic and eons of self control go out the window all over a bit of skin or something - because if that's your issue then you need serious help.

Seriously. Just how lowly do you want to make yourself LOOK. Are you not capable of controlling yourself or something?
 
GATH

Not all rapists are obvious creeps, or have even necessarily raped before. There are a lot of different factors that can push a man over the edge in this regard.

Assuming that they're all just power-tripping masterminds deliberately scoping out targets is a bit naïve, IMO. Sometimes rapes escalate out of simple misunderstandings with horny and intoxicated men who aren't very receptive to hearing the word "no."

I really hope you aren't speaking from personal experience here! If a woman is either saying no, crying, or trying to fight you off, I don't see how that's a misunderstanding.
 
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Well when you claim it's 'about the wardrobe choices' then - yeah - you are saying they're to blame for their own rape. ("My god, woman, if you wore the LONG skirt instead of the SHORT skirt it wouldn't have happened!")

It won't make them any more or less vulnerable: clothing and how it's attractive is pure opinion which varies widely. AND rape isn't about *the visual appeal* - it's about *the psychological appeal*

Read some rape fantasies and tell me how much visuals play into anything - it DOESN'T. It's about control over another person and NOT their own self. You think it goes this way: "You look hot in that skirt - now I'm horny and I'm going to **** you" . . . NO! That is not what happens!

Again, I'm not talking about "all" or even "most" rapes here. If a woman is raped out of the blue, she really has no way of preventing that.

However, some women do legitimately behave stupidly in environments that could contain potential rapists. In doing so, they put themselves at risk. You cannot deny this.

Those women should be encouraged to alter their own behavior so that they can better defend themselves, not just throw caution to the wind and blithely assume that men will behave themselves "just because."

Most men will, but a sizeable minority will not, and that sizeable minority will not be going away any time soon simply because they happen to be "politically incorrect."

And unlike what Gathom is trying to say (that it's about being 'pushed over the edge' as if men who are sexually aroused lose all ability to not do something because their brains melt to mush) this makes sense because prostitutes are *easy victims* for those who are intent on raping.

Crime of opportunity = finding those who are easy targets with minimal *risk* . . . a prostitute is the *least likely* to report the assault because her activities are illegal themselves.

I don't believe for one second that a man who rapes a prostitute entered the situation with the idea of treating her with decent respect until - oh man - she rolled her eyes or something stupid like that.

Again, we're not talking about all rapes here, but some rapes.

Date rapes generally aren't committed by some hardened serial rapist, but just some dumb drunk kid with a temper and not much respect for women.

And if they do NOT, that doesn't mean they are responsible for a man making the conscious decision to rape them.

It is possible to point out objectively foolish behavior without "blaming the victim," you know.

Just like you said about rapists, it is NOT a perfect world, and people are never going to be perfect.

Yes, which is exactly why a lot of "politically correct" women need to stop pretending like it is.

There are bad men out there. You should never assume that some random stranger you meet out on the town has your best interests in mind and can be trusted.
 
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Again, I'm not talking about "all" or even "most" rapes here. If a woman has is raped out of the blue, she really had no way of preventing that.

However, some do legitimately behave stupidly in environments that could contain potential rapists, and, in doing so, put themselves at risk. You cannot deny this.

Those women should be encouraged to alter their own behavior so that they can better defend themselves, not just throw caution to the wind and blithely assume that men will behave themselves "just because."

Most will, but a sizeable minority will not, and that sizeable minority will not be going away any time soon simply because they happen to be "politically incorrect."

So wearing clothes that someone might find appealing = behaving stupidly?

Some rapes as in = rapes that are committed by the men who lose all sense of self control because she looks pretty - it's just THAT IRRESISTIBLE . . . must touch! He sees cleavage and is suddenly like a vampire in bloodlust.

Come off it.

I'll wager that the only people who are THAT ****ED UP are mentally inept. So - if you work with the criminally insane or mentally inept, look out.

For 99.99% of everyone else - follow through with the common sense things like 'don't hang out with guys who treat you and all other women like ****'.
 
It is possible to point out objectively foolish behavior without "blaming the victim," you know.

So then you agree with me that the woman is NOT responsible for her rape because of clothing she is wearing.

Yes, which is exactly why a lot of "politically correct" women need to stop pretending like it is.

There are bad men out there. You should never assume that some random stranger you meet out on the town has your best interests in mind and can be trusted.


Well I don't do those things, but if a person is raped because they made a mistake or a bad judgment, then I still don't put any responsibility on the victim. SHE wasn't out trying to hurt anyone with her clothing.
 
The first precaution is not to put yourself in risky atmospheres. The "first precaution" is hardly carrying a gun.



Unsavory neighborhoods? I agree. What sane woman does that? And yet. An enclosed parking garage very late at night...parked-around-the-corner-from-the-club late at night...using a large parking lot as a meeting/drop-off place late at night...getting into an elevator with someone who makes the hairs on your neck stand up...using stairwells...all of these things are done by women every single day of the week. Risky behavior, in my opinion.

You mention the hairs standing up on the back of your neck, Maggie, and that touches in something I believe firmly in, and this goes for everybody....trust your intuition. A female friend told me once about how she was in a bank parking lot going to her car when she noticed two guys hanging around the car next to hers. Now they could have been there for any reason. Maybe they just happened to see each other and were just chatting innocently. After all, it was the middle of the day. She described for me how she felt uneasy and how these 'red flags' we're going off, telling her not to go to any where near her car until she could be among a group of people and that's what she did. I believe strongly in those "red flags". Don't try talking yourself out of them or chastise yourself for being "paranoid". So what if you're wrong about someone and extra precautions you took were unnecessary. That's a damn site better than finding out in the worst possible way that your instincts were 100% accurate but you didn't pay attention to them.
 
So: wear a box on a date so he doesn't rape you.

There's nothing wrong with a woman looking DECENT or NICE - mmmkay? Unless you're willing to date long term a woman who always wears the fugliest clothes you shouldn't spout that type of ****.

Unless you're here saying that you admittedly behave like a caveman lunatic and eons of self control go out the window all over a bit of skin or something - because if that's your issue then you need serious help.

Seriously. Just how lowly do you want to make yourself LOOK. Are you not capable of controlling yourself or something?

Some men do behave like cavemen, and always will. I am not one of them, but I am familiar with their type.

I really don't see why it is so offensive to suggest that women should take precautions to defend themselves against these kinds of men.

You wouldn't park an expensive sports car in a bad inner city neighborhood and announce its presence with a loud speaker, you really shouldn't be too over the top in "showing off the goods" in a potentially dangerous environment or getting too overtly flirtatious with strange men either.

If a woman is going to do that, she needs to take precautions to defend herself, like traveling with a group, limiting her alcohol consumption, and not allowing herself to be isolated with a man who could conceivably be dangerous.

She's free not to if she so wishes, of course; but she is always going to be putting herself at risk in doing so.

I really hope you aren't speaking from personal experience here! If a woman is either saying no, crying, or trying to fight you off, I don't see how that's a misunderstanding.

Of course not.

However, anyone can tell you that most men will feel "lead on" by a provocatively dressed and overtly flirtatious woman who doesn't actually have any intention of sleeping with them. Some men, especially under the influence of alcohol, do not handle the eventual "no" interactions with such women tend to result in as well as others.

In some cases, an extreme reaction, from a particular personality type, can result in a rape or sexual assault taking place.

Most men are not like that, but some are. Women need to be wary of this, and not go deliberately out of their way to attract the wrong kinds of attention if they are not prepared to potentially defend themselves.
 
Some men do behave like cavemen, and always will. I am not one of them, but I am familiar with their type.

I really don't see why it is so offensive to suggest that women should take precautions to defend themselves against these kinds of men.

You wouldn't park an expensive sports car in a bad inner city neighborhood and announce its presence with a loud speaker, you really shouldn't be too over the top in "showing off the goods" in a potentially dangerous environment or getting too overtly flirtatious with strange men either.

If a woman is going to do that, she needs to take precautions to defend herself, like traveling with a group, limiting her alcohol consumption, and not allowing herself to be isolated with a man who could conceivably be dangerous.

She's free not to if she so wishes, of course; but she is always going to be putting herself at risk in doing so.



Of course not.

However, anyone can tell you that most men will feel "lead on" by a provocatively dressed and overtly flirtatious woman who doesn't actually have any intention of sleeping with them. Some men, especially under the influence of alcohol, do not handle the eventual "no" interactions with such women tend to result in as well as others.

In some cases, an extreme reaction, from a particular personality type, can result in a rape or sexual assault taking place.

Most men are not like that, but some are. Women need to be wary of this, and not go deliberately out of their way to attract the wrong kinds of attention if they are not prepared to potentially defend themselves.

I know you weren't addressing me, but I don't think it's offensive. However, throughout the thread you have been placing WAY too much emphasis on choice of clothing leading to rape, and it kind of seems as if you might be insinuating that women who dress in a certain way are perhaps partially responsible for a crime being committed against them.

Anyway, I really do think it's a smart idea to take precautions, but like I said, I would still not ever say to a rape victim, "oh well you shouldn't have done this or that," because in most cases it probably wouldn't have really made much difference IMO. I think that most rapists are disturbed individuals, at least on some level.

I'm heading off to bed now, so have a good night! :2wave: No hard feelings I hope. :)
 
So wearing clothes that someone might find appealing = behaving stupidly?

Give me a break. A woman knows damn well when she's wearing something explicitly provocative. Hell, it's usually by design.

For that matter, I never claimed that clothing was the primary factor in driving these kinds of assaults in the first place. I said that it could be a contributing factor in some cases.

Look at my original example, for instance.

Again, believe that if you want.

In practical reality, on the other hand, things are almost never that simple. If a woman's wearing her best pair of booty shorts, spends the whole evening grinding said booty shorts up against some guy's crotch, lets him get her drunk while doing so, follows him to a secluded area afterwards, and then finds herself in an altercation at the end of the night when she says "no" and he tries to press the matter anyway, it cannot be denied that her poor choices ultimately did play a role in allowing the situation to escalate to that point.

Does that make the man's actions any less wrong? Nope. He should be fried like the rapist scum he is.

However, this doesn't alter the reality that it is very much in a woman's best interests to avoid the kinds of behaviors and situations which might result in her being victimized in the first place.

There are legitimately some women like that out there.

Do they deserve to be raped? No.

Are they behaving like idiots either way regardless? Yup.

Some rapes as in = rapes that are committed by the men who lose all sense of self control because she looks pretty - it's just THAT IRRESISTIBLE . . . must touch! He sees cleavage and is suddenly like a vampire in bloodlust.

Or men that feel slighted by a woman they perceived as "teasing" them and "aren't going to take 'no' for an answer from a damn slut," or men who are simply too damn drunk to know the difference, or men who simply don't see a particular problem with taking advantage of a woman who has passed out of her own accord, etca, etca...

Again, it is possible for rape to be a crime of passion rather than strictly pre-meditated.

I'll wager that the only people who are THAT ****ED UP are mentally inept. So - if you work with the criminally insane or mentally inept, look out.

For 99.99% of everyone else - follow through with the common sense things like 'don't hang out with guys who treat you and all other women like ****'.

I never said that most men behave this way. Most don't.

Some, however; do. Women are a lot more likely to run afoul of them if they deliberately try to attract the wrong kinds of attention than they are if they behave with a bit more restraint.

So then you agree with me that the woman is NOT responsible for her rape because of clothing she is wearing.

Well I don't do those things, but if a person is raped because they made a mistake or a bad judgment, then I still don't put any responsibility on the victim. SHE wasn't out trying to hurt anyone with her clothing.

She is not responsible. The only "responsibility" a victim carries is making sure that they are not in a position to be victimized in the first place.

Responsibility for the crime itself always falls on the perpetrator.
 
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