View Poll Results: Rape and clothing correlation

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  • I suspect women are wearing revealing clothes in most rape cases

    1 0.98%
  • I suspect that a man/woman will rape regardless of the victims clothing

    28 27.45%
  • I think some women are inviting dangerous attention when wearing revealing attire

    6 5.88%
  • I don't think clothes have anything to do with rape

    56 54.90%
  • Other

    11 10.78%
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Thread: Rape and Clothing

  1. #511
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    If you are so sure of that, march through the most dangerous neighborhood in your city wearing nothing but a bikini.

    I would suggest bringing a gun or something similar with you to ensure your safety. However, I can guarantee you that you will not like the kind of attention you wind up getting either way regardless.

    Do you think you would get that same level of attention wearing something more conservative?



    I saw no evidence of that whatsoever from what you quoted.



    Again, I find this extremely hard to believe.

    In date rapes especially, a man is not going to target a woman who appears to be unlikely to "put out" in the first place. Clothing does play a role in creating that perception.

    It might not be a major role, but the role is still there.



    The prevalence of date rapes on college campuses would indicate otherwise.

    By and large, it is not frumpy and reserved women who tend to run afoul of these kinds of problems.



    Yes, but this doesn't change the fact that going out of one's way to make a spectacle of one's self is only going to make the problem worse.

    Denying this is simply foolish.
    Oh? Check this out! Not that I buy this either, but it's interesting nonetheless. I really don't think your manner of dress has anything to do with rape, except for perhaps in rare cases of date rape, but then I think the rape would occur regardless of how the woman is dressed in that situation too.

    While people perceive dress to have an impact on who is assaulted, studies of rapists suggest that victim attire is not a significant factor. Instead, rapists look for signs of passiveness and submissiveness, which, studies suggest, are more likely to coincide with more body-concealing clothing. (140) In a study to test whether males could determine whether women were high or low in passiveness and submissiveness, Richards and her colleagues found that men, using only nonverbal appearance cues, could accurately assess which women were passive and submissive versus those who were dominant and assertive. (141) Clothing was one of the key cues: "Those females high in passivity and submissiveness (i.e., those at greatest risk for victimization) wore noticeably more body-concealing clothing (i.e., high necklines, long pants and sleeves, multiple layers)." (142) This suggests that men equate body-concealing clothing with passive and submissive qualities, which are qualities that rapists look for in victims. Thus, those who wore provocative clothes would not be viewed as passive or submissive, and would be less likely to be victims of assault.

  2. #512
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Getting more of the one increases your chances of running afoul of the other.

    The Steubenville boys, for instance, were cheered on by a damn crowd as they sexually abused their victim.

    Do not underestimate the power of the "mob mentality."
    That can happen no matter what a person is wearing. It's usually when a person is in the wrong place at the wrong time with a rapist PERIOD.

    Oh, and there have been cases where rapists have broken into women's homes without even KNOWING what they look like to rape them too.

  3. #513
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    This comes from compilations of interviews among the convicted. It's a power play, it's forcing of one's will on someone and not gratification. Even the more passive types of rape have a power component to them.

    Think about it, the little weasel type of guy who doesn't want to risk rejection from the woman he has his eye on but also doesn't have the nerve to forcibly rape her would put something in her drink or wait till she had too much. At the point that she can't say no and can't fight back he still has the power, he just went the other way with it and incapacitated her with substances rather than brute force. In either scenario the ability to refuse was taken away from the victim, their choice was taken away, their power over the situation.
    What's passive rape? Is that like, as opposed to a particularly brutal rape? If there's some scale of severity, is there some point at which there is no rape, even in the event of non-consensual sexual contact? I believe there's some implied contradiction there. Likewise, even if it ties in with your next point about drug-facilitated sexual assault. In the latter case, how do you reconcile your insistence of rape as a power play with the lack of any degradation requiring conscious awareness? Further, offender testimony doesn't equate with psychiatry, which in any case constitutes no empirical baseline. Nor does it allow for rejection of opportunism. Since you mention frequency in criminological terms, it amounts to no more than statistical probability; this being something that falls some way short of psychiatric analysis, which in itself is moot.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Actually, I'm going off of years of reading up on it. A person is much more likely to get over getting a severe beating than a rape. There is an entire psychology behind the rapes that a lot of warlords in third world countries have their soldiers commit, those rapes are about power, and also about humiliating the men within their opposition.
    This is all still entirely speculative. You've no way of predicting how trauma might be perceived and processed from one individual to another. What you or I might dismiss as being mildly disturbing could drive another to suicide.

    As for the warlord example, you make admission of situational and cultural biases. These being at odds with any universal application that the 'power' brigade seem intent upon claiming. After all the thread's deflective free-association, we're still left with the sexual component as being the one and only necessity for qualification. No agenda necessary.

  4. #514
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Who targeted that particular girl based on earlier contact (she was talking to one of those boys prior to the party in a way indicating interest), not based on her clothing/attire of the evening. There is no evidence that in the same situation, had she decided to wear a little bit more clothing than her friends or most other girls at that party, that she would not have been targeted by those boys.
    This still strikes me as being unlikely. If she had shown up dressed like a nun, the boys would have had a significantly different perception of her intent, and likely would have passed her up for someone else, who seemed more likely to fulfill their sexual needs.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Since you obviously aren't reading any of my links, I'm just posting a good excerpt from this one just for you to read. Maybe this will help you to understand how far off base you are about rapists.
    The following is of particular note here.

    Yes, there may always be sadistic sexual psychopaths and otherwise deranged offenders, but there also has to be a significant number of rapists who are, shall we say, borderline cases – unsure of themselves and their actions, perhaps shaken by self-doubt or fear.
    I would argue that the majority of date rapists very likely fall into this category.

    They have borderline tendencies, which are exacerbated by the situation, the alcohol in their system, or their perception of the women they are dealing with.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 02-20-14 at 12:53 AM.

  5. #515
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    The prevalence of date rapes on college campuses would indicate otherwise.

    By and large, it is not frumpy and reserved women who tend to run afoul of these kinds of problems.
    This assumes that only women who attracted a date because of wearing skimpy or revealing clothing are date raped. That is a horrible assumption. Even many very conservatively dressed college women get dates and are in fact date raped. Their clothing choice has nothing to do with that.

    Do you think all women should go out of their way to always look frumpy? Because that is basically what you are saying in this assumption of yours, which makes very little sense by the way, because there would still be rape even if every single woman was completely covered head to toe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Yes, but this doesn't change the fact that going out of one's way to make a spectacle of one's self is only going to make the problem worse.

    Denying this is simply foolish.
    There is a huge difference between wearing revealing clothing or being scantily clad and making a spectacle of one's self. And you can't even show any sort of proof/evidence that a woman who makes a spectacle of herself is more likely to be raped than someone who is a bit more reserved in her attire.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    This assumes that only women who attracted a date because of wearing skimpy or revealing clothing are date raped. That is a horrible assumption. Even many very conservatively dressed college women get dates and are in fact date raped. Their clothing choice has nothing to do with that.

    Do you think all women should go out of their way to always look frumpy? Because that is basically what you are saying in this assumption of yours, which makes very little sense by the way, because there would still be rape even if every single woman was completely covered head to toe.



    There is a huge difference between wearing revealing clothing or being scantily clad and making a spectacle of one's self. And you can't even show any sort of proof/evidence that a woman who makes a spectacle of herself is more likely to be raped than someone who is a bit more reserved in her attire.
    Rapes happen in the ME all the time and even in countries where the women wear burqas.

  7. #517
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    This still strikes me as being unlikely. If she had shown up dressed like a nun, the boys would have had a significantly different perception of her intent, and likely would have passed her up for someone else, who seemed more likely to fulfill their sexual needs.
    So she should have shown up to a regular house party dressed as a nun to avoid being raped? That doesn't make sense at all. First of all, there is little reason or chance that she would be at a house party, particularly bringing her own bottle of alcohol, dressed as a nun. Dressing in revealing clothing (which we still don't know what her clothing really was or how revealing it was compared to other girls there) has nothing to do with a woman's intent when it comes to sex at that particular time. Wishing to attract a guy's attention is nowhere near the same as telling them "I want to have sex with you", no matter what the girl/woman is doing to attract the guy's attention (save outright saying that, and I knew a woman who did this, she was also known to wear sleep clothes to a country bar on occasion and still took guys home that way because she basically was just looking to have sex).

    There is a huge difference between dressing conservatively and dressing like a nun.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  8. #518
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Oh? Check this out! Not that I buy this either, but it's interesting nonetheless. I really don't think your manner of dress has anything to do with rape, except for perhaps in rare cases of date rape, but then I think the rape would occur regardless of how the woman is dressed in that situation too.

    While people perceive dress to have an impact on who is assaulted, studies of rapists suggest that victim attire is not a significant factor. Instead, rapists look for signs of passiveness and submissiveness, which, studies suggest, are more likely to coincide with more body-concealing clothing. (140) In a study to test whether males could determine whether women were high or low in passiveness and submissiveness, Richards and her colleagues found that men, using only nonverbal appearance cues, could accurately assess which women were passive and submissive versus those who were dominant and assertive. (141) Clothing was one of the key cues: "Those females high in passivity and submissiveness (i.e., those at greatest risk for victimization) wore noticeably more body-concealing clothing (i.e., high necklines, long pants and sleeves, multiple layers)." (142) This suggests that men equate body-concealing clothing with passive and submissive qualities, which are qualities that rapists look for in victims. Thus, those who wore provocative clothes would not be viewed as passive or submissive, and would be less likely to be victims of assault.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    That can happen no matter what a person is wearing. It's usually when a person is in the wrong place at the wrong time with a rapist PERIOD.

    Oh, and there have been cases where rapists have broken into women's homes without even KNOWING what they look like to rape them too.
    Yes, but those aren't the kinds of rapes we're talking about here. Serial rapists who prey upon women at random are a "wild card" factor that cannot be accounted for, or really avoided.

    However, not all rapists are on their level. Some men are simply borderline, and are tipped over the edge by circumstances or some other factor. These men, while they might not have much respect for women, generally are not targeting them for the explicit purpose of rape.

    They are targeting them for the purposes of getting laid, and either respond badly to being turned down, or deign to take advantage when alcohol does their job for them. A woman's clothing can play a role in influencing how such men "profile" women ahead of time, and this, in turn, can shape their view of how likely she is to have sex, and how offended they might be when she turns them down.

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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Yes, but those aren't the kinds of rapes we're talking about here. Serial rapists who prey upon women at random are a "wild card" factor that cannot be accounted for, or really avoided.

    However, not all rapists are on their level. Some men are simply borderline, and are tipped over the edge by circumstances or some other factor. These men, while they might not have much respect for women, generally are not targeting them for the explicit purpose of rape.

    They are targeting them for the purposes of getting laid, and either respond badly to being turned down, or deign to take advantage when alcohol does their job for them. A woman's clothing can play a role in influencing how such men "profile" women ahead of time, and this, in turn, can shape their view of how likely she is to have sex, and how offended they might be when she turns them down.
    What are you talking about? No one specified a "kind" of rape. We are talking about rape in general, and clothing plays a negligible role in rape, as has been shown to you time and time again.

    Just admit it Gathomas, YOU don't like that women dress provocatively.

    It's soooo stupid, because those guys are going to be angry no matter WHAT the woman is wearing.

  10. #520
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    What are you talking about? No one specified a "kind" of rape. We are talking about rape in general, and clothing plays a negligible role in rape, as has been shown to you time and time again.

    Just admit it Gathomas, YOU don't like that women dress provocatively.
    this definitely seems to be the case

    its the only logical excuse, its an attempt to justify ones own wrong thoughts/desires/feelings. Nothing else makes sense
    Last edited by AGENT J; 02-20-14 at 01:09 AM.
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