View Poll Results: Rape and clothing correlation

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  • I suspect women are wearing revealing clothes in most rape cases

    1 0.98%
  • I suspect that a man/woman will rape regardless of the victims clothing

    28 27.45%
  • I think some women are inviting dangerous attention when wearing revealing attire

    6 5.88%
  • I don't think clothes have anything to do with rape

    56 54.90%
  • Other

    11 10.78%
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Thread: Rape and Clothing

  1. #501
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Because there is an irrational political agenda at play here which is counter-productive to the goal of keeping women safe.

    With regards to absolutely no other crime would vulnerable people be told that the amount of attention they draw to themselves in dangerous environments plays literally "no role" in their likelihood of being victimized.
    I think it seems like YOU are the one with an agenda here. Dressing in a certain way does NOT make one vulnerable. Putting oneself in a vulnerable situation may though.

    Why don't you just admit that YOU don't like seeing women dressed in what you consider to be "slutty" clothes, you don't like them and you don't respect them. I think that's what the real issue is here.

  2. #502
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    What you just quoted only goes to backup my point. Many rapists do take revealing clothing as being a sign that a woman is a "bad girl" who is open to sex (even if she does not know it herself).
    No it doesn't. It says that rapists rarely commit this crime from having misread "cues" and on the rare occasion when cue's are involved the man would have taken anything as a cue so there was nothing the woman could have done differently to protect herself. Any look, any smile any normal movement would have been seen as a cue.

    Granted, a lot of them will rape anyway regardless of clothing, but this doesn't change the fact that clothing can sometimes play a role in exacerbating an already bad situation, or making a bad situation more likely to develop in the first place.
    Only if you are dealing with a rapist who would do it no matter what you are wearing.
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  3. #503
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    If a certain behavior or article of clothing can be counted on to attract men in general, it can be counted on to attract a man who simply happens to be a rapist as well.

    That's really all there is to it.

    If a woman wants to dress that way, it's up to her. She can probably even get away with it under most circumstances; especially so if she's safe.

    However, that does not mean that she is not still attracting attention to herself which increases her overall risk of getting into trouble in doing so.
    But we know this isn't the case. There would be evidence of this. There would be an obvious difference in rape victims based on clothing worn. We do not see this though. And we don't see this because the mentality of rapists is not simply "I want to have sex with that woman because I am sexually attracted to her and I don't care if she says no". It is much more than that. There is really no rational reason to believe that the clothing a woman wears will make the difference when it comes to being targeted by a rapist in general, unless a pattern of a specific rapist is known.

    Scenario: Women start dressing more "conservatively" to avoid attracting rapists. But then what is considered conservative or not changes by definition because it would be a constant battle of covering up more and more to avoid attracting "the wrong people". But they still want to attract potential consensual mates. So how do they do this without attracting rapists? Where would be the balance between not being attractive to rapists but still being attractive to other men? If every woman was to dress the same, would that confound the rapists enough so they wouldn't have a target?

    Any attempt to attract a man opens a woman up to attraction from a potential rapist. But in reality, even not attempting to attract a man can still gain the attention of a potential rapist. It is not right to believe that the most scantily clad woman/women in a bar or on the street are the most likely to get raped. The clothing simply isn't the determining factor there.
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  4. #504
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I'm sorry, but it is anything but a "myth."

    Um . . . YES. Unless it's self defense of some kind or wartime, then yes it's pretty safe to say that a person is pretty much a sociopath if they kill someone.
    I absolutely positive that this is not the stance taken by the psychiatric field on this issue.

    Yes it does. Studies have concluded just that. They suffer from at least some kind of personality disorder.

    http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/754975_3
    I cannot access this study.

    Not true. Normal men do NOT rape women.
    Define "normal." the Steubenville boys were model citizens before the incident that got them convicted.

    No, the risk factor is having a rapist present and behaving in an irresponsible manner, and sometimes the woman doesn't even HAVE to behave in an irresponsible manner and can still be raped. The only risk factor is that there is a rapist present.
    That doesn't make any sense.

    If you go strolling through a bad neighborhood at night in clothing far too affluent for the area, is the only risk factor a mugger being present?

    No one uses this kind of logic.

    Bull, it's all about your behavior and the behavior of the rapist and not how you are dressed.
    Many men who could potentially be rapists will take cues from how a woman is dressed.

    Behavior might play a larger role than clothing in determining whether or not an attack ever actually takes place, but its role in some instances of profiling can not be denied.

  5. #505
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    The "political agenda" in question is right here.
    lol no need to roll your eyes cause you cant back up your claim and dont have an answer
    lets us know when you do

    in case you forgot the request was "please do tell, what is this factual political agenda you speak of, i didnt read it in my conspiracy news letter this week?"
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  6. #506
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Define "normal." the Steubenville boys were model citizens before the incident that got them convicted.
    Who targeted that particular girl based on earlier contact (she was talking to one of those boys prior to the party in a way indicating interest), not based on her clothing/attire of the evening. There is no evidence that in the same situation, had she decided to wear a little bit more clothing than her friends or most other girls at that party, that she would not have been targeted by those boys.



    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Many men who could potentially be rapists will take cues from how a woman is dressed.

    Behavior might play a larger role than clothing in determining whether or not an attack ever actually takes place, but its role in some instances of profiling can not be denied.
    Clothing only plays a role when it comes to specific rapists who are found to target based on certain types of clothing, and it doesn't even have to be clothing that is tight or shows off a lot of the body. But you can't know that without knowing the mindset of a particular rapist or at least having an MO for a particular rapist.
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  7. #507
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    I'm sorry, but it is anything but a "myth."



    I absolutely positive that this is not the stance taken by the psychiatric field on this issue.



    I cannot access this study.



    Define "normal." the Steubenville boys were model citizens before the incident that got them convicted.



    That doesn't make any sense.

    If you go strolling through a bad neighborhood at night in clothing far too affluent for the area, is the only risk factor a mugger being present?

    No one uses this kind of logic.



    Many men who could potentially be rapists will take cues from how a woman is dressed.

    Behavior might play a larger role than clothing in determining whether or not an attack ever actually takes place, but its role in some instances of profiling can not be denied.
    Since you obviously aren't reading any of my links, I'm just posting a good excerpt from this one just for you to read. Maybe this will help you to understand how far off base you are about rapists.

    As it happens, there is not a shred of evidence in the research literature to support the theory that a woman's risk of suffering serious sexual assault is linked to her clothing. Many factors have been identified as putting a woman at statistically greater risk, including drinking, her consensual sexual habits and (tragically) her past victimisation, but you'll find nothing on clothing. What research there is on rapists and their decision-making points to the rapist's opportunity and the victim's vulnerability (psychological and situational) as the relevant factors, not appearance. Those who work on the frontline with rape victims testify that they come in all shapes, sizes and sartorial shades.

    I'm a huge admirer of the SlutWalk movement, but it's disappointing it has only led us to this debate about the "I'm-all-right-Jill" approach to rape prevention, and has yet to progress to the bigger, better question of how we reduce the number of rapes happening in the first place?

    The motivations, decision-making and psychopathology of rapists are complex and much disputed between and within disciplines. Human behaviours emerge from an intricate web of socialisation and learning, evolved instincts, neurobiology and those myriad traits and cognitions we call a personality. Much of that is hard to change (in adults at least) but not all.

    Our actions are affected and altered by the prevailing attitudes and values surrounding us. For example, it was not criminalisation that radically reduced drink-driving in the UK, but changes to the social norms. Sexually abusive behaviour is on a continuum and it's surely not the case that there is a clear distinction between the thought patterns of well-adjusted people on one side and the twisted, perverted logic of the rapist on the other. Yes, there may always be sadistic sexual psychopaths and otherwise deranged offenders, but there also has to be a significant number of rapists who are, shall we say, borderline cases – unsure of themselves and their actions, perhaps shaken by self-doubt or fear.

    It seems almost certain that some such men can be swayed not only by better education around issues of consent and sexual violence, but also by the attitudes and values of their friends and family around them, and the voices in the pub, workplace and media. All these provide hints as to the degree of social acceptability or perceived evil of their behaviour.

    That is why it is vital to challenge and rebuke remarks that trivialise or normalise rape, whether made by an internet troll or the UK justice secretary. That is why it is always dangerous to dehumanise women by comparing their bodies and sexual integrity to property and possessions, and that is why it is reprehensible to suggest that a woman in a sexy skirt should expect to be raped.

  8. #508
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I think it seems like YOU are the one with an agenda here. Dressing in a certain way does NOT make one vulnerable.
    If you are so sure of that, march through the most dangerous neighborhood in your city wearing nothing but a bikini.

    I would suggest bringing a gun or something similar with you to ensure your safety. However, I can guarantee you that you will not like the kind of attention you wind up getting either way regardless.

    Do you think you would get that same level of attention wearing something more conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    No it doesn't. It says that rapists rarely commit this crime from having misread "cues" and on the rare occasion when cue's are involved the man would have taken anything as a cue so there was nothing the woman could have done differently to protect herself. Any look, any smile any normal movement would have been seen as a cue.
    I saw no evidence of that whatsoever from what you quoted.

    Only if you are dealing with a rapist who would do it no matter what you are wearing.
    Again, I find this extremely hard to believe.

    In date rapes especially, a man is not going to target a woman who appears to be unlikely to "put out" in the first place. Clothing does play a role in creating that perception.

    It might not be a major role, but the role is still there.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    But we know this isn't the case. There would be evidence of this. There would be an obvious difference in rape victims based on clothing worn. We do not see this though. And we don't see this because the mentality of rapists is not simply "I want to have sex with that woman because I am sexually attracted to her and I don't care if she says no". It is much more than that. There is really no rational reason to believe that the clothing a woman wears will make the difference when it comes to being targeted by a rapist in general, unless a pattern of a specific rapist is known.
    The prevalence of date rapes on college campuses would indicate otherwise.

    By and large, it is not frumpy and reserved women who tend to run afoul of these kinds of problems.

    Scenario: Women start dressing more "conservatively" to avoid attracting rapists. But then what is considered conservative or not changes by definition because it would be a constant battle of covering up more and more to avoid attracting "the wrong people". But they still want to attract potential consensual mates. So how do they do this without attracting rapists? Where would be the balance between not being attractive to rapists but still being attractive to other men? If every woman was to dress the same, would that confound the rapists enough so they wouldn't have a target?

    Any attempt to attract a man opens a woman up to attraction from a potential rapist. But in reality, even not attempting to attract a man can still gain the attention of a potential rapist. It is not right to believe that the most scantily clad woman/women in a bar or on the street are the most likely to get raped. The clothing simply isn't the determining factor there.
    Yes, but this doesn't change the fact that going out of one's way to make a spectacle of one's self is only going to make the problem worse.

    Denying this is simply foolish.

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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    If you are so sure of that, march through the most dangerous neighborhood in your city wearing nothing but a bikini.

    I would suggest bringing a gun or something similar with you to ensure your safety. However, I can guarantee you that you will not like the kind of attention you wind up getting either way regardless.

    Do you think you would get that same level of attention wearing something more conservative?

    The men who do "cat calls" and whistle at a woman are NOT rapists. Getting "attention" and getting raped are two completely different things.

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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    The men who do "cat calls" and whistle at a woman are NOT rapists. Getting "attention" and getting raped are two completely different things.
    Getting more of the one increases your chances of running afoul of the other.

    The Steubenville boys, for instance, were cheered on by a damn crowd as they sexually abused their victim.

    Do not underestimate the power of the "mob mentality."

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