View Poll Results: Rape and clothing correlation

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  • I suspect women are wearing revealing clothes in most rape cases

    1 0.98%
  • I suspect that a man/woman will rape regardless of the victims clothing

    28 27.45%
  • I think some women are inviting dangerous attention when wearing revealing attire

    6 5.88%
  • I don't think clothes have anything to do with rape

    56 54.90%
  • Other

    11 10.78%
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Thread: Rape and Clothing

  1. #401
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Cannot disagree more here. A man(not just a male) must expect the best of standards of himself, this includes impulse control. I don't care if I'm on "the edge" the second a woman changes her mind that is that, if she says no and isn't role playing then the moment is over, that's just part of being a man.
    Absolutely. I was never trying to imply otherwise.

    I was simply saying that it's not particularly hard to visualize how these kinds of crimes wind up going down sometimes.

    Misunderstandings arise on the bar and club scene all the time. Where most men (myself included, as should go without saying) aren't terrible human beings and will simply take "no" for an answer and move on, under just the wrong circumstances (the wrong guy with the wrong personality, the wrong environment, the wrong level of intoxication, the wrong level of flirtation before hand, etca), it is possible for such misunderstandings to escalate into something far worse.

    That doesn't make it any less wrong. The man in question is still rapist scum.

    I'm simply acknowledging that this is a risk women face, and saying that they should plan around it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Commie View Post
    I guess this is why I don't follow his posts! I hope those points written in third person, don't turn out to be personal confessions.
    Do you have any idea just how cowardly this little routine of yours comes off as being?

    When "ignoring" a person, it is customary to actually, you know... ignore them.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 02-19-14 at 11:31 AM.

  2. #402
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    All crime is based off of opportunity, for instance, if an attacker observes me at 5'10" and 195lbs. of mostly muscle or a guy who is 5"5" 95lbs. he will choose the smaller guy. If a person is intent on armed robbery they will choose the least secure premises/person rather than a path that would lead to being stopped. Rape, and all other crimes all follow the same pattern, most gain with least consequence.
    Also, they might think, Oh look, there's a girl passed out, and it really doesn't matter at that point what she's wearing. She is an opportune victim at that point.

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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Another reason why you can say that clothing has little to do with MOST rapes is because of the level of sickness of the perp. Who would want to have sex with a person who is crying and screaming and begging you to stop? I would think that would be a COMPLETE turn off for a "normal" person. Wanting to force a person to have sex with you when they do NOT want you?! It really shows how disturbed the rapist must be.

    Even in the case of "drunk" rapes. Who wants to have sex with a person who is completely unresponsive and doesn't even know what's going on? It's messed up IMO.
    Lol! I'll bet guys who do this are the types of guys who have sex dolls too (or maybe just a hole in a wall or something, perhaps even some poor vulnerable animal - who knows!). Weirdos.

  4. #404
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by herenow1 View Post
    Since posters are getting upset that the yoga thread keeps getting derailed I will ask this here. Do you think most (true cases- not made up, let's not turn this into he said she said discussion) people who get raped are wearing revealing clothing?
    I wish you had allowed multiple choices - I would like to pick both #2 and #3. Generally I think Rapists are not terribly put off if the victim is conservatively dressed, however, I do think that women who put themselves in dangerous situations have put themselves in dangerous situation.


    It should be noted that that isn't a way of blaming the victim for the rape. However, if I walk up to a street gang member and call him a Punk A-- B---h in front of his boys, well, the fact that he is guilty and responsible for the following assault does not in any way obviate the fact that walking up to a street gang member and calling him a Punk A--- B---h in front of his boys is an abysmally stupid thing to do, because it needlessly places you in danger. If you choose to dress in such a way that is guaranteed to advertise to every male above the age of 11 in a 2-mile radius that you are sexually available, go to frat parties, accept drinks from anyone who gives them to you, and then agree to let some random dude walk you home through darkened alleys instead of sticking with a girlfriend, well, that is an abysmally stupid thing to do.
    Last edited by cpwill; 02-19-14 at 11:34 AM.

  5. #405
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Personal story, I considered pledging my local chapter of Sigma Alpha Epsilon during college because their charter stated they were the "gentleman's fraternity" and later found out they were drugging women at the parties and molesting them, I was absolutely appalled and at the same time glad my good name wasn't associated with that.
    Ugh, disgusting.

  6. #406
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

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    I have not the mind of a rapist.....and I think this is necessary for a determination to be made.....
    define revealing clothing

  7. #407
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Yes, but her choice of clothing almost certainly did play a role in attracting that particular guy's attention in the first place, and forming his perception of her intent.

    Like I said, clothing might only be a contributing factor, but it is still a factor in some cases.
    But her actions took it the furthest. And not-so-revealing clothing can just as easily attract the wrong type of guy as very revealing clothing. It all depends on the guy. I've attracted my fair share of weirdos just wearing jeans and t-shirts or even my uniform. Some of them, I wouldn't be caught alone with. It isn't the clothing really, but the guy and his personal attractions.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    But her actions took it the furthest. And not-so-revealing clothing can just as easily attract the wrong type of guy as very revealing clothing. It all depends on the guy. I've attracted my fair share of weirdos just wearing jeans and t-shirts or even my uniform. Some of them, I wouldn't be caught alone with. It isn't the clothing really, but the guy and his personal attractions.
    Agreed, and say he has an attraction to toes or something else weird and a woman happens to be wearing open-toed sandals? There is just no way of knowing what some mentally deficient weirdo is going to find a "turn on."

  9. #409
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Great advice, XFactor.

    Let me pass along what (I think) Pinkie passed along once before. The Gift of Fear should be required reading in school. Written by Gavin DeBecker, it's an easy and enthralling self-help book that reads like a thriller. I downloaded it as her suggestion and think it should be required reading for every woman. Here's a little sample...

    Pre-Incident Indicators (PINS)

    PINS (Pre-Incident Indicators)[edit]

    •Forced Teaming. This is when a person implies that he has something in common with his chosen victim, acting as if they have a shared predicament when that isn't really true. Speaking in "we" terms is a mark of this, i.e. "We don't need to talk outside... Let's go in."
    •Charm and Niceness. This is being polite and friendly to a chosen victim in order to manipulate him or her by disarming their mistrust.
    •Too many details. If a person is lying they will add excessive details to make themselves sound more credible to their chosen victim.
    •Typecasting. An insult is used to get a chosen victim who would otherwise ignore one to engage in conversation to counteract the insult. For example: "Oh, I bet you're too stuck-up to talk to a guy like me." The tendency is for the chosen victim to want to prove the insult untrue.
    •Loan Sharking. Giving unsolicited help to the chosen victim and anticipating they'll feel obliged to extend some reciprocal openness in return.
    •The Unsolicited Promise. A promise to do (or not do) something when no such promise is asked for; this usually means that such a promise will be broken. For example: an unsolicited, "I promise I'll leave you alone after this," usually means the chosen victim will not be left alone. Similarly, an unsolicited "I promise I won't hurt you" usually means the person intends to hurt their chosen victim.
    •Discounting the Word "No". Refusing to accept rejection.

    Seriously, every woman should read this book.
    Frankly, that only kinds of feeds into the "mixed messages" I mentioned earlier. A lot of what you just listed here are tactics that men who are not rapists are encouraged to employ simply to get women to consensually sleep with them.

    Lying about one's identity, carefully crafted insults, and the rest of that are fairly typical "playa" and "pick up artist" ploys. Being "nice," for that matter, is so universal as to be essentially meaningless.

    Young men are encouraged to be wildly aggressive sexually, young women are encouraged to find that desirable, and both are encouraged to be intoxicated while engaging in this little "mating dance." The lines have simply been blurred to such an extreme degree these days that a little bit of trouble often seems inevitable.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I know that you would like to make assumptions about a person based upon his/her clothing, but it really doesn't necessarily mean that a person is irresponsible or stupid either. Just because some people might be more flamboyant than others doesn't really mean they are "slutty" or anything. I would withhold my opinions about a person based upon their behavior rather than how they appear or how they are dressed.
    True. No means no, and it is always ultimately the lady's choice. I would never even dream of suggesting anything otherwise.

    At the same time, however; there are provocative behaviors (and even clothing styles) that it would be a good idea for women to avoid under certain circumstances.

    Going to back to Herenow1's gay rape example, for instance; I would never go to a gay club by myself. I would absolutely never wear clothing that someone could interpret as sending "F-me" vibes (keep in mind that we're talking about clearly over the top here, not just 'looking nice') at such an establishment, and I wouldn't allow a gay guy to buy me drinks all night or let him walk me home alone afterwards.

    Would I be "asking for it" under those circumstances? No.

    However, I would certainly be making a potential rapist's job a Hell of a lot easier.

    I understand that you just want to help, and I think some people might be being a little hard on you here.
    Yea... This is one of those subjects where there's just no winning, it seems.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 02-19-14 at 12:05 PM.

  10. #410
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by NoC_T View Post
    Since rape is about power and not sex, then of the millions (billions?) of rapes that must surely leave history awash with this particular atrocity, do you happen to know of one single case where sexual contact wasn't the mode of expression? Would it be reasonable to revise the existing laws to include a new definition of rape as being a power crime, rather than a sex crime? Shall we remove rapists from the sex offenders registers, in light of this new definition, since it's somehow inaccurate? We could reasonably choose to recognise no distinction between rape and, say, a verbal threat, since power and control are the qualifiers, right? Or blackmail, for example? A politician abusing his position to have a woman removed from her job just raped her, is that correct? He'll be charged with rape? I'll wait patiently for a single example of a case where rape occurred without sex.

    Now, you might say it's both. That it's power by means of sex. Interestingly, even consensual sex can occur with power as the motive, as in certain forms of fetishism. But thatís consensual, so no harm no foul. But then the only difference between rape as some cruel and ruthless pursuit of power and regular sex is the element of consent itself, correct? By extension, if I punch a woman in the face without her consent, I just raped her. No sex was necessary. Christ, I could steal a Snickers bar and be guilty of rape. Let's be clear. There's no denying the sexual component of rape, but 'power' is merely (politically) interpretative beyond physical domination. No complex, degradative, diabolical mind game is necessary. While rape is destructive, there are numerous other avenues one might pursue to that end, and without any attendant jail sentence.

    Also, does knowing the victim in advance make the crime any less opportunistic? Even a jewellery store smash n' grab, though planned, would entail the element of opportunism. Or a mugging. Whatever. Does intention necessarily constitute a lengthy period of premeditation? Because if there's no established temporal baseline, then a ten year campaign of threats that culminates in rape is no more indicative of planning than the ****bag who jumps women in car parks. That a victim might know her attacker in advance is no refutation of opportunism, that representing, literally, a moment of opportunity. A 'plan' can be formulated in seconds. All thatís required is a dark alley and a passer-by. I doubt very much if serial rapists who attack complete strangers would be accused of putting much thought into who their victims are. It's opportunism, not military logistics. How much planning does it take to rape someone, requiring only physical domination? If anything, doesnít knowing the victim in advance make for far less planning than with a stranger?
    Perhaps you should read exactly what I posted, since you want to address such a question toward me and this particular post. I never once mentioned anything about power, but especially not it being the only reason for rape in that post. Nor would I. I think it is absolutely the main reason for most rape, but that has nothing to do with what I posted. I was posting on a comment made about opportunity. I don't think opportunity is the most important factor in rape, even date rape. Plenty of people have opportunities throughout their lives to rape a person. There has to be something more that causes them to actually rape someone they see or are dating or just went on a date with, something more than opportunity. In many cases, if not most, I'd say that it has to do with some sense of power they gain from doing it. Perhaps it is also a thrill. I don't really know what runs through the minds of every single rapist. What I do know is that the average person does not take advantage of someone and have sex with them, when they know the person doesn't want to have sex just because there is a possible opportunity to do it.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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