View Poll Results: Rape and clothing correlation

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  • I suspect women are wearing revealing clothes in most rape cases

    1 0.98%
  • I suspect that a man/woman will rape regardless of the victims clothing

    28 27.45%
  • I think some women are inviting dangerous attention when wearing revealing attire

    6 5.88%
  • I don't think clothes have anything to do with rape

    56 54.90%
  • Other

    11 10.78%
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Thread: Rape and Clothing

  1. #331
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by beefheart View Post
    I am saddened that you are so emotionally immature.
    LOL that is really stupid and not proper here



  2. #332
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Yes, and dates are a Hell of a lot safer than hanging out with strange men at a bar or nightclub. If for no other reason, this is the case simply because dates don't usually involve copious amounts of alcohol or deliberately sexual clothing or behavior.

    Hell, just a few decades before the 1960s, it wasn't terribly uncommon for dates to actually require a chaperone.
    Well, I think you should provide links, and even if that's the case, I don't think women want to give up their freedom and go back to the 1950s. Seems like you and a select few others are the only ones who want a time machine.

    Today's culture, on the other hand, is especially dangerous in this regard, as young people are encouraged to dress provocatively and go out and seek sex with random strangers. Most often, they do so under the influence of alcohol or other perception altering substances as well.

    That's just a bad combination all the way around, and trying to temper that message of "sexual liberation" with talk of "moderation" and "responsibility" often strikes young and hormonal minds as simply being "mixed messages." This leads to a lot of young and foolish women getting themselves into trouble with the wrong kinds of men.
    This is kind of silly. I don't see where anyone is "encouraging" people to be promiscuous nowadays. The "sexual revolution" of the 60s? Well I think that revolution is dead. We try to instill safe sexual habits in our young people, such as NOT sleeping around but IF they do, then practice safe sex.

  3. #333
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    .........
    So giving an accurate account of what was witnessed, including accurate descriptions of dress, have no place in a trial? Everything that tells the jury about the scene and actions of the people involved is not only not irrelevant, it is essential to the jury's ability to make an accurate judgment.
    No including how she was dressed or behaved is irrelevant. The implication is that they are somehow indicative of the level of responsibility. They aren't.


    It is kind of funny, people are arguing about how the juror may perceive the description of how someone is dressed, but in doing so, they are making an unfounded assumption about the jurors with even less foundation for judgment.

    All women who dress provocatively are sluts asking for it. All men and other women think that women who dress provocatively are sluts asking for it. Neither is accurate or correct, but you want to limit what the jury sees based upon the second statement?
    They are not arguing about how the juror may perceive the description they are arguing about the legitimacy of including it in deliberations. It is not a factor and should not be considered when evaluating a case.

    Or do you simply want more men convicted of rape when charged, regardless of guilt or innocence?
    How the woman is dressed or how she acted should is irrelevant and should not be considered when determining his guilt.
    "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers" - Voltaire
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  4. #334
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    =Gathomas88;1062940010]He is, of course, and I absolutely would tell someone.

    It strikes me as being somewhat unlikely that there would be no warning signs ahead of time though.
    So you wouldn't take any of the responsibility for letting him spend the night?

  5. #335
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    I get it, but that is not what I'm talking about. That is the part you appear not to get.

    Jurors are put in place to judge innocence or guilt. Everything that can be presented is necessary to given those jurors the most accurate picture of what occurred or what didn't. Every detail is potentially important. Without video, then descriptions are used to try to get the juror to visualize the scene and actions in their head. Every detail left out is a hindrance to their ability to do so. Any detail intentionally left out is a miscarriage of justice and any court officer doing so should be charged with obstruction of justice.

    Jurors shouldn't judge the woman as giving consent because of the way she dresses. I can agree to that. But the court has the responsibility to give the jurors as accurate a picture as possible.

    But it is not just about giving consent, it's about who is telling the truth. How someone presents themselves can speak to their character and is what people most often use as clues to make such judgments about strangers. In a he said/she said scenario, the jury must decide who is lying. If the jury judges the man is lying simply based upon the fact that he is a man accused of rape, isn't that as wrong and a miscarriage of justice as them judging the womans consent by her clothes? I would think more so, since he would then be put in jail and have to register the rest of his life as a sex offender. Which gives a more accurate picture, the staged environment of the court room or the persons dress and appearance at the time of the alleged crime?
    I don't believe you. I think it seems like maybe you might judge others in such a manner and that you might even think it's appropriate to make such judgments based upon clothing. You are probably an older man from another generation and just don't understand that women wear what they want to wear nowadays, and it doesn't necessarily mean anything.

  6. #336
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by herenow1 View Post
    So you wouldn't take any of the responsibility for letting him spend the night?
    Lol! And if he was wearing a really tight shirt and tight jeans that were, ahem, accentuating, then he would be enticing the gay man.

  7. #337
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by herenow1 View Post
    Yes the culture is changing and is always changing...what was wrong is now right,and what was right is now wrong. Let's make this more relatable to you since most men can't relate to rape or the fear of being raped. Let's say you have a gay buddy, and he is open about it to everyone. Let's say you guys go out to a sports bar and watch a game. You have a beer or two but not enough to get you drunk. Your friend parks his car at your house but doesn't feel like driving home so he asks to stay at your place. You say sure, and you both go to different rooms for the night. Let's say 10 min later he comes to your room and starts putting on the moves and talking about how good you looked tonight. You tell him he needs to back off but b/c he is bigger and stronger than you, he overpowers you! You have just been raped and now you can't tell anyone b/c after all YOU gave him permission to stay at your house and you KNEW that he was gay. Who is to blame in this situation? Were you being irresponsible?
    Responsibility won't matter. He better make damned sure I'm dead when he leaves or he won't be the one on trial. I would hunt him down and make every remaining moment of his life a living hell. You don't want a detailed description, but to give you some idea, watch "Princess Bride" and pay attention near the end when he describes "not to the death, to the pain", it will give you some idea.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

  8. #338
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    No including how she was dressed or behaved is irrelevant. The implication is that they are somehow indicative of the level of responsibility. They aren't.




    They are not arguing about how the juror may perceive the description they are arguing about the legitimacy of including it in deliberations. It is not a factor and should not be considered when evaluating a case.


    How the woman is dressed or how she acted should is irrelevant and should not be considered when determining his guilt.
    Read post #330
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

  9. #339
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Responsibility won't matter. He better make damned sure I'm dead when he leaves or he won't be the one on trial. I would hunt him down and make every remaining moment of his life a living hell. You don't want a detailed description, but to give you some idea, watch "Princess Bride" and pay attention near the end when he describes "not to the death, to the pain", it will give you some idea.
    And that is exactly how women who are raped feel. And then they have to go to a trial and be BLAMED because of how they were dressed.

  10. #340
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Well, I think you should provide links, and even if that's the case, I don't think women want to give up their freedom and go back to the 1950s. Seems like you and a select few others are the only ones who want a time machine.
    The claim regarding date rape is common sense. There simply wouldn't have been any opportunity for it to really occur prior to the explosion of "bar and club" style sexuality among youth demographics in the latter half of the twentieth century.

    I'm also not suggesting that we do go back to the 1950s. I'm suggesting that people behave responsibly and not encourage behavior or attitudes which will simply lead to trouble.

    This is kind of silly. I don't see where anyone is "encouraging" people to be promiscuous nowadays.
    You're kidding, right?



    A lot of people coming up these days basically think this is how they are expected to act (keep in mind that this is the "PG" trailer as well, the actual movie is about 1000X worse).

    Ever seen one of MTV's Spring Break specials?

    Trying to interject with something like, "oh, hey, and remember to be safe" in the middle of that simply comes off as being laughably stupid to most young people.

    The "sexual revolution" of the 60s? Well I think that revolution is dead. We try to instill safe sexual habits in our young people, such as NOT sleeping around but IF they do, then practice safe sex.
    I'm sorry, but this is simply out of touch with basic reality.

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