View Poll Results: Rape and clothing correlation

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  • I suspect women are wearing revealing clothes in most rape cases

    1 0.98%
  • I suspect that a man/woman will rape regardless of the victims clothing

    28 27.45%
  • I think some women are inviting dangerous attention when wearing revealing attire

    6 5.88%
  • I don't think clothes have anything to do with rape

    56 54.90%
  • Other

    11 10.78%
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Thread: Rape and Clothing

  1. #321
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Date rape wouldn't have been as common before the Sexual Revolution simply because the environment necessary for it wouldn't have existed. By and large, young men and women really were not dressing promiscuously, congregating en masse at bars and night clubs, getting plastered, and attempting to take strangers home prior to the 1960s.

    Regular rape would have still existed, but "he said - she said" cases were a lot less common.
    That is not true at all. People still went out on dates back then. Rape has been common throughout the ages. I don't know what you're talking about.

  2. #322
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    again, what exactly are you trying to establish with this mantra

    are you trying to score points with the women?

    or are you trying to prove something to yourself?

    your comments are pretty worthless for this thread
    No, just noting there are constants in this world. You don't rape people, you don't beat children, you don't take advantage of mentally or physically handicapped and you don't torture animals.

    All things in which there is no equivocation or "yeah, but..."

    I am not saying this to make myself look good, shame on you for even making that assumption.

    Sorry that you have to face hard truths.
    "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana

  3. #323
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by beefheart View Post
    No, just noting there are constants in this world. You don't rape people, you don't beat children, you don't take advantage of mentally or physically handicapped and you don't torture animals.

    All things in which there is no equivocation or "yeah, but..."

    I am not saying this to make myself look good, shame on you for even making that assumption.

    Sorry that you have to face hard truths.
    I am just laughing at what appears to be a silly combination of Captain Obvious comments and PC nonsense



  4. #324
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by herenow1 View Post
    Yes the culture is changing and is always changing...what was wrong is now right,and what was right is now wrong. Let's make this more relatable to you since most men can't relate to rape or the fear of being raped. Let's say you have a gay buddy, and he is open about it to everyone. Let's say you guys go out to a sports bar and watch a game. You have a beer or two but not enough to get you drunk. Your friend parks his car at your house but doesn't feel like driving home so he asks to stay at your place. You say sure, and you both go to different rooms for the night. Let's say 10 min later he comes to your room and starts putting on the moves and talking about how good you looked tonight. You tell him he needs to back off but b/c he is bigger and stronger than you, he overpowers you! You have just been raped and now you can't tell anyone b/c after all YOU gave him permission to stay at your house and you KNEW that he was gay. Who is to blame in this situation? Were you being irresponsible?
    Actually any man could answer this, not just gath. Btw- I used the gay friend comparison b/c it's equivalent to a female letting a male friend spend the night!
    Last edited by herenow1; 02-19-14 at 12:52 AM.

  5. #325
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I am just laughing at what appears to be a silly combination of Captain Obvious comments and PC nonsense
    Do you disagree with me?

    If not, then don't mock my message and grow the hell up.
    "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana

  6. #326
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    I think the problem with attributing someone's clothing to personal responsibility, is that there's the cut-off between an acknowledged absolute, as in the case of rape being wrong, and the innumerable variations that clothing can take. If there's any correlation of responsibility, as this suggests, then we'd have an ambiguous scale of criminality. That, wearing one combination of clothing, a woman is somehow more to blame for her attack than if she were wearing another combination. That rape would be either more or less wrong in that regard. That if the more revealing is her clothing, the more culpable she is, then total nudity would be somehow more of a green light than if she were wearing a burka.

    The fact that a man might react more strongly to one combination than another, is a matter purely of that man's self-control and morality. We don't hold others responsible for our moral choices. Rape is not self-defence, after all. To claim otherwise is to claim that men are mindless beasts.

  7. #327
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by herenow1 View Post
    Yes the culture is changing and is always changing...what was wrong is now right,and what was right is now wrong. Let's make this more relatable to you since most men can't relate to rape or the fear of being raped. Let's say you have a gay buddy, and he is open about it to everyone. Let's say you guys go out to a sports bar and watch a game. You have a beer or two but not enough to get you drunk. Your friend parks his car at your house but doesn't feel like driving home so he asks to stay at your place. You say sure, and you both go to different rooms for the night. Let's say 10 min later he comes to your room and starts putting on the moves and talking about how good you looked tonight. You tell him he needs to back off but b/c he is bigger and stronger than you, he overpowers you! You have just been raped and now you can't tell anyone b/c after all YOU gave him permission to stay at your house and you KNEW that he was gay. Who is to blame in this situation?
    He is, of course, and I absolutely would tell someone.

    It strikes me as being somewhat unlikely that there would be no warning signs ahead of time though.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    That is not true at all. People still went out on dates back then. Rape has been common throughout the ages. I don't know what you're talking about.
    Yes, and dates are a Hell of a lot safer than hanging out with strange men at a bar or nightclub. If for no other reason, this is the case simply because dates don't usually involve copious amounts of alcohol or explicitly sexual clothing or behavior.

    Hell, just a few decades before the 1960s, it wasn't terribly uncommon for dates to actually require a chaperone.

    Today's culture, on the other hand, is especially dangerous in this regard, as young people are encouraged to dress provocatively and go out and seek sex with random strangers. Most often, they do so under the influence of alcohol or other perception altering substances as well.

    That's just a bad combination all the way around, and trying to temper that message of "sexual liberation" with talk of "moderation" and "responsibility" often strikes young and hormonal minds as simply being "mixed messages." This leads to a lot of young and foolish women getting themselves into trouble with the wrong kinds of men.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 02-19-14 at 12:56 AM.

  8. #328
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by NoC_T View Post
    I think the problem with attributing someone's clothing to personal responsibility, is that there's the cut-off between an acknowledged absolute, as in the case of rape being wrong, and the innumerable variations that clothing can take. If there's any correlation of responsibility, as this suggests, then we'd have an ambiguous scale of criminality. That, wearing one combination of clothing, a woman is somehow more to blame for her attack than if she were wearing another combination. That rape would be either more or less wrong in that regard. That if the more revealing is her clothing, the more culpable she is, then total nudity would be somehow more of a green light than if she were wearing a burka.

    The fact that a man might react more strongly to one combination than another, is a matter purely of that man's self-control and morality. We don't hold others responsible for our moral choices. Rape is not self-defence, after all. To claim otherwise is to claim that men are mindless beasts.
    Thank you for that wonderful and insightful post NoC_T!

  9. #329
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I am just laughing at what appears to be a silly combination of Captain Obvious comments and PC nonsense
    I am saddened that you are so emotionally immature.
    "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana

  10. #330
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    CLOTHING has nothing to do with consenting to sex. What don't you get about that?
    I get it, but that is not what I'm talking about. That is the part you appear not to get.

    Jurors are put in place to judge innocence or guilt. Everything that can be presented is necessary to given those jurors the most accurate picture of what occurred or what didn't. Every detail is potentially important. Without video, then descriptions are used to try to get the juror to visualize the scene and actions in their head. Every detail left out is a hindrance to their ability to do so. Any detail intentionally left out is a miscarriage of justice and any court officer doing so should be charged with obstruction of justice.

    Jurors shouldn't judge the woman as giving consent because of the way she dresses. I can agree to that. But the court has the responsibility to give the jurors as accurate a picture as possible.

    But it is not just about giving consent, it's about who is telling the truth. How someone presents themselves can speak to their character and is what people most often use as clues to make such judgments about strangers. In a he said/she said scenario, the jury must decide who is lying. If the jury judges the man is lying simply based upon the fact that he is a man accused of rape, isn't that as wrong and a miscarriage of justice as them judging the womans consent by her clothes? I would think more so, since he would then be put in jail and have to register the rest of his life as a sex offender. Which gives a more accurate picture, the staged environment of the court room or the persons dress and appearance at the time of the alleged crime?
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

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