View Poll Results: Rape and clothing correlation

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  • I suspect women are wearing revealing clothes in most rape cases

    1 0.98%
  • I suspect that a man/woman will rape regardless of the victims clothing

    28 27.45%
  • I think some women are inviting dangerous attention when wearing revealing attire

    6 5.88%
  • I don't think clothes have anything to do with rape

    56 54.90%
  • Other

    11 10.78%
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Thread: Rape and Clothing

  1. #301
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Encouraging women to behave stupidly because "men should know well enough to behave themselves" isn't helping anyone or anything.

    It simply makes them more likely to become victims.
    Well damn - I'm always hoping that statements like that will encourage men to, I don't know, treat men who behave in such ways as a blight on the male population of our species or maybe reiterate to the male perps that it's actually wrong. Wishful thinking I guess.

    Let's get back to blaming the women - that'll get us further.
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    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
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  2. #302
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    ...........
    Encouraging women to behave stupidly because "men should know well enough to behave themselves" isn't helping anyone or anything.
    that's subjective though, especially in this context.

    It simply makes them more likely to become victims.
    Only so long as we give men permission to misbehave and not take responsibility for their actions

    Women really shouldn't be looking for an "equal share" in self-destructive fratboy style stupidity that most men don't even condone
    It's not about that. It's about having the same level of culpability for what comes from that if you do engage.
    "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers" - Voltaire
    "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow men. True nobility lies in being superior to your former self" -Hemingway

  3. #303
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Yeah that is the obvious PC answer

    but some stuff that is called rape is NOT

    so your silly little mantra has no real use here

    of course real rape is wrong

    but are you saying ANYITME a woman claims rape, the man is guilty?
    Lol! Well that's ALMOST as ridiculous as claiming every time a woman is dressed sexy she wants to have sex with her date or any other guy who finds her sexy.

  4. #304
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by herenow1 View Post
    Irresponsible flakes? Do you think that most rapes are b/c of the woman being irresponsible, b/c that sentence makes it appear that way. I think if you had to listen to real stories of women who were raped you would walk away with a different view!
    I didn't say that most rapes were tied to such behavior. They are not.

    However, you cannot deny that the generally more "loose" moral standards our society has been encouraging for the last several decades do play a role in creating environments, and encouraging behaviors, that often put women at risk.

    "Date rape," for instance, is a phenomena which has only become a major problem since the 1960s.

  5. #305
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    I didn't say that most rapes were tied to such behavior. They are not.

    However, you cannot deny that the generally more "loose" moral standards our society has been encouraging for the last several decades do play a role in creating environments, and encouraging behaviors, that often put women at risk.

    "Date rape," for instance, is a phenomena which has only become a major problem since the 1960s.

    That is not true. The fact is that back in the old days, rape was even LESS reported crime than it is now!

  6. #306
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    it's irrelevant and has no place in the discussion.
    So giving an accurate account of what was witnessed, including accurate descriptions of dress, have no place in a trial? Everything that tells the jury about the scene and actions of the people involved is not only not irrelevant, it is essential to the jury's ability to make an accurate judgment.

    It is kind of funny, people are arguing about how the juror may perceive the description of how someone is dressed, but in doing so, they are making an unfounded assumption about the jurors with even less foundation for judgment.

    All women who dress provocatively are sluts asking for it. All men and other women think that women who dress provocatively are sluts asking for it. Neither is accurate or correct, but you want to limit what the jury sees based upon the second statement? Or do you simply want more men convicted of rape when charged, regardless of guilt or innocence? When you use the second statement to pre-judge jurors, that is exactly what you are asking for.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

  7. #307
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity View Post
    You're not going to like this very much when i say that that this particular conversation reminds me of my time in the ME. A lot of the males i came into contact with were pretty outspoken about why women should remain veiled. They also thought women should be invisible to men, for their own safety and to protect men from lustful thoughts.

    That's a backward way of thinking Gath.
    I wouldn't go that extreme. However, I absolutely do think that there is probably a "happy medium" in there somewhere.

    "I can let it all hang out, get wasted, and hit on every guy in the bar if I want and not expect men to get any sexual ideas at all" really wouldn't strike me as being it, however.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Well damn - I'm always hoping that statements like that will encourage men to, I don't know, treat men who behave in such ways as a blight on the male population of our species or maybe reiterate to the male perps that it's actually wrong. Wishful thinking I guess.

    Let's get back to blaming the women - that'll get us further.
    They're douchebags. No one's denying that.

    There's a reason why rapists often tend to be raped themselves in prison, after all.

    However, none of this means that those kinds of men are going to be going away any time soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    Only so long as we give men permission to misbehave and not take responsibility for their actions
    How do you figure that we're giving them "permission to misbehave?"

    Are rapists not generally despised and prosecuted?

    It's not about that. It's about having the same level of culpability for what comes from that if you do engage.
    Which is why women should have the presence of mind to properly look out for their own safety in the first place.

  8. #308
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Yeah that is the obvious PC answer

    but some stuff that is called rape is NOT

    so your silly little mantra has no real use here

    of course real rape is wrong

    but are you saying ANYITME a woman claims rape, the man is guilty?

    Nothing PC about it.

    Rape, wrong, end of story.

    "ANYITME"
    "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana

  9. #309
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    So giving an accurate account of what was witnessed, including accurate descriptions of dress, have no place in a trial? Everything that tells the jury about the scene and actions of the people involved is not only not irrelevant, it is essential to the jury's ability to make an accurate judgment.

    It is kind of funny, people are arguing about how the juror may perceive the description of how someone is dressed, but in doing so, they are making an unfounded assumption about the jurors with even less foundation for judgment.

    All women who dress provocatively are sluts asking for it. All men and other women think that women who dress provocatively are sluts asking for it. Neither is accurate or correct, but you want to limit what the jury sees based upon the second statement? Or do you simply want more men convicted of rape when charged, regardless of guilt or innocence? When you use the second statement to pre-judge jurors, that is exactly what you are asking for.
    many years ago, I was at the TGIF restaurant where my then girlfriend worked. One of the more radicalized feminists who worked there came up and asked what I thought of the William Kennedy Smith verdict that had been announced that day.

    I said RIGHT VERDICT

    and she got all upset and said OF COURSE YOU THINK THAT WAY you are a man

    I said I despise most of the Kennedys but this guy was no rapist

    I then asked her WHAT evidence proved rape

    everything Bowman said was contradicted by facts

    she said THE WORD OF THE WOMAN was ENOUGH

    and that my friends is the sort of nonsense that is the other side of the "women are sluts" argument



  10. #310
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    I was actually surprised (when I looked up some 'warning signs that the guy near you is a royal rapist doucher') info that 'he was a nice guy' doesn't come up - I don't know why I expected rapists to pretend to be nice in order to get close to the women they attack.

    about date rape
    Trust your gut feelings
    Never feel that you have to spend time alone with someone who makes you feel uneasy or uncomfortable. Listen to your instincts and leave situations that you don't feel good about. Don't wait for someone to look out for you or for things to get better, because chances are they won't.

    Alcohol
    Some guys will be really generous and buy you drinks all night, but they might have hidden reasons. Getting a girl drunk is a common way to make her drop her inhibitions.
    You may be less able to refuse someone who is making a move on you or pressuring you to do something you don't want to do. It's best to buy your own drinks and to keep an eye on them. Read more about alcohol and drugs.

    Be choosy about guys
    Be careful about who you hang out with. There's no sure way to tell which guys could be dodgy, but watch out for guys who:

    • ignore you or don't really listen to you
    • do unwanted touching or invade your personal space
    • want to control what you do and make decisions for you
    • make suggestive or crude remarks about women.


    Know your sexual rights
    How often do guys say 'You would if you loved me …'? Sex shouldn't be the only way you can show somebody you love them. And sex is not meant to one-sided – it should be something you both want.
    Remember, you have the right to say no, even if you've had sex with him before, and you also have the right to change your mind. It is never OK to force somebody into having sex.
    It can be particularly hard to say no to a guy you like – you might enjoy kissing and touching but aren't ready to have sex just yet. It's good to be firm and straightforward about what you do and don't want to do.
    In an equal relationship, each person has the right to stop the activity at any time. If he really cares about you he will respect your decision and will not start or continue anything you don't like.

    Look out for your mates
    When you go out in a group to a party, pub or club, look out for each other and make sure that everyone you came with gets home safely. If you're concerned about what a friend is doing, talk to them about it.

    Break the silence
    If you've been forced into sex against your will it is not your fault. It may help to talk to somebody about what happened, like a friend, a trusted adult or a counsellor at a sexual assault service or crisis line. Remember, you're not alone.

    10 warning signs
    1. Being alone with someone you don't know well
    2. Not knowing how you're going to get home
    3. An instinctive 'bad feeling' about a situation
    4. Drinking too much alcohol
    5. Accepting drinks from people, particularly if the drink tastes or smells 'funny'
    6. Guys who don't listen to you or show respect
    7. A guy who insists on coming into your house when he drops you home
    8. Unwanted touching by a guy
    9. Guys who say 'You would if you loved me …'
    10. A friend who's not in control and is being taken advantage of
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

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