View Poll Results: Rape and clothing correlation

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  • I suspect women are wearing revealing clothes in most rape cases

    1 0.98%
  • I suspect that a man/woman will rape regardless of the victims clothing

    28 27.45%
  • I think some women are inviting dangerous attention when wearing revealing attire

    6 5.88%
  • I don't think clothes have anything to do with rape

    56 54.90%
  • Other

    11 10.78%
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Thread: Rape and Clothing

  1. #201
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    clothing has no relevance in violent rape cases

    clothing does play a role in determining He said/She said consent cases



  2. #202
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    That might not be true at all. If that were the case, rapists would be hanging around at beaches and that is where rapes would occur most often because that is where females are wearing the least clothing. Instead, like another person noted, most rapes are probably occurring at college campuses because that is where the most opportunities are present because the college women are getting too drunk. Those guys aren't looking for the most scantily clad girl but the one who is the most drunk because they think they might be able to get away with it.
    Sometimes it is premeditated. Sometimes it is not.

    As I've already said, a woman's level of dress (or lack thereof) is often taken as an indicator of her willingness to have sex. Some of the guys who are drawn to that kind of girl are not especially respectful towards women in general, and might not handle rejection very well if they discover that their initial perception was wrong; trying to take advantage of the girl in question, or drunkenly force themselves upon her.

    That's how girls wind up getting in trouble.

    Usually, when women are stalked and raped, it has very little if anything at all to do with their clothing because that is usually someone they know or are acquainted with.
    Then those aren't the rapes we're talking about here.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 02-18-14 at 10:37 PM.

  3. #203
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    clothing has no relevance in violent rape cases

    clothing does play a role in determining He said/She said consent cases
    How so? Clothing does not equal any kind of consent for sexual activity IMO. I don't see how that makes any sense, and it shouldn't be allowed as evidence at all IMO.

  4. #204
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Do you really think what she was wearing a valid defense for rape?

    What about this? Does this include things such as "what was she wearing?" Perhaps under "opinion evidence?"

    Rape shield law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    no but it is relevant in determining cases where the man said the woman agreed and she denies it

    example (a case in Cincinnati I am familiar with)

    scenario #1.

    A woman comes into a bar wearing say overalls. She sits by herself at the bar, doesn't talk to anyone, has a drink, goes out to her car, and then comes back in and approaches several patrons-all of whom are men. She leaves with one man. The next morning she claims she was raped and had asked for a ride home because her car didn't start.


    Scenario #2. a woman comes into the same bar dressed in a skintight bodysuit, patterned tights, a very short skirt an stiletto heels. She spends the night flirting with a couple guys and leaves with one of them. The next morning she claims she was raped by the guy she left with.

    Now, all we have in both scenarios is the conflicting testimony of the "victim" and the "perpetrator"

    IN both scenarios, the men claimed the women wanted sex. the women both deny that

    you are the judge of the facts.

    which case are you more likely to believe that the intent of the "victim" that night was to pick up men

    which case is it more likely that the woman wanted, or at least implied that she wanted to have sex?



  5. #205
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Sometimes it is premeditated. Sometimes it is not.

    As I've already said, a woman's level of dress (or lack thereof) is often taken as an indicator of her willingness to have sex.
    Well Gathomas. Let me educate you. It doesn't mean that.

    Some of the guys who are drawn to that kind of woman are not especially respectful towards women, and might not handle rejection very well if they discover that their initial perception was wrong; trying to take advantage of the girl in question, or drunkenly force themselves upon her.

    That's how girls wind up getting in trouble.
    I can agree with this, but again it has little to nothing to do with how a woman is dressed and more about the opportunity that has presented itself in his sick mind.

    IOW, I don't think rapists CARE that much about the appearance of their victim as long as they are not grotesque. They just want to get laid, and so they rape an easy target. That is how I see it.



    Then those aren't the rapes we're talking about here.
    No specific rape scenarios are described in the OP, so I can talk about that too.

  6. #206
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    How so? Clothing does not equal any kind of consent for sexual activity IMO. I don't see how that makes any sense, and it shouldn't be allowed as evidence at all IMO.
    well unlike you I watched the William Kennedy Smith case from start to finish

    Patricia Bowman claimed she had no intent of having sex that night. She denied-under cross-that she intended to "troll for a guy" at a well known singles bar. She claimed she only went out that night to visit a friend and the friend's new baby but after arriving at her friend's home, she decided to go bar hopping with the friend (I believe the friend's husband was going to watch the baby)

    ok that was her testimony

    so how did her attire figure into that

    well the evidence reflected she wore a skimpy black dress, 60 dollar Givenchy pantyhose an spiked heels

    now tell me Chris-is that attire consistent with

    a) a woman whose intentions as she was getting dressed was to go visit with a mom with a new born baby

    b) a woman who was out looking for attention at a singles bar (where she was picked up by William Kennedy Smith)



  7. #207
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by herenow1 View Post
    You mean to tell me you always walk in pairs with other women at night? You've never been somewhere later than you intended and found yourself walking to your car in a garage somewhere? I'm all about common sense, but sometimes life happens and you don't always have a bodyguard or two-three other girlfriends with you at the snap of a finger.Sometimes things happen and it causes you to reassess everything you THOUGHT you knew!
    I don't park in enclosed garages. The last time I did? Probably ten years ago. I asked security to escort me to my car. If I'm out alone late at night (like girls' night out), we're all walking to the parking lot together, never alone. If I'm parked in a large parking lot (like shopping), day or night, I'm always watching my surroundings, checking the back seat of my car, locking my door as quickly as I open it.

    More than a few times, when the elevator door has opened and I see someone who is 'questionable' in my estimation, as I start to walk on the elevator, I've said, "DAMN it. Sorry, forgot something." It's a knee-jerk response I'm prepped with anytime I'm walking into an elevator. If I were to use a stairwell, it would only be because the building was on fire. I valet my car any time I have that opportunity. I have signage on my car (magnetic on both sides). When picking up my car, I've asked the valet to remove it more than once before driving up to the pick-up spot because someone has given me the creeps.

    When I feel the hairs on the back of my neck stand up? I believe 'em.

    I've taken a number of 'dirty street fighting' classes and, unless I was blitzed, I think MAYBE I could put up a somewhat reasonable defense. Certainly I'd leave the cops with some DNA. The classes included both defensive and offensive tactics. I wish I had more practice time with them, but still . . .

    These are the lessons we should teach our daughters. And after that? Perhaps a CCW.

  8. #208
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    no but it is relevant in determining cases where the man said the woman agreed and she denies it

    example (a case in Cincinnati I am familiar with)

    scenario #1.

    A woman comes into a bar wearing say overalls. She sits by herself at the bar, doesn't talk to anyone, has a drink, goes out to her car, and then comes back in and approaches several patrons-all of whom are men. She leaves with one man. The next morning she claims she was raped and had asked for a ride home because her car didn't start.


    Scenario #2. a woman comes into the same bar dressed in a skintight bodysuit, patterned tights, a very short skirt an stiletto heels. She spends the night flirting with a couple guys and leaves with one of them. The next morning she claims she was raped by the guy she left with.

    Now, all we have in both scenarios is the conflicting testimony of the "victim" and the "perpetrator"

    IN both scenarios, the men claimed the women wanted sex. the women both deny that

    you are the judge of the facts.

    which case are you more likely to believe that the intent of the "victim" that night was to pick up men

    which case is it more likely that the woman wanted, or at least implied that she wanted to have sex?

    I still fail to see where the clothing matters at all. Most people are dressed up when they go out to the club and very few would show up in overalls. It's not out of the ordinary for women to be dressed up at a bar/club, whether she intends to pick up men or not.

    I would think in the scenarios above, it was the woman's behavior that was an indicator and not how she was dressed, and even in those scenarios that is no defense IMO. If she said NO, then that means NO.

  9. #209
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I still fail to see where the clothing matters at all. Most people are dressed up when they go out to the club and very few would show up in overalls. It's not out of the ordinary for women to be dressed up at a bar/club, whether she intends to pick up men or not.

    I would think in the scenarios above, it was the woman's behavior that was an indicator and not how she was dressed, and even in those scenarios that is no defense IMO. If she said NO, then that means NO.
    YOu miss the point

    the jury wasn't there

    they know she claimed she said NO

    they Know the Man said SHE CONSENTED

    how do you tell who is telling the truth?



  10. #210
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    Re: Rape and Clothing

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    well unlike you I watched the William Kennedy Smith case from start to finish

    Patricia Bowman claimed she had no intent of having sex that night. She denied-under cross-that she intended to "troll for a guy" at a well known singles bar. She claimed she only went out that night to visit a friend and the friend's new baby but after arriving at her friend's home, she decided to go bar hopping with the friend (I believe the friend's husband was going to watch the baby)

    ok that was her testimony

    so how did her attire figure into that

    well the evidence reflected she wore a skimpy black dress, 60 dollar Givenchy pantyhose an spiked heels

    now tell me Chris-is that attire consistent with

    a) a woman whose intentions as she was getting dressed was to go visit with a mom with a new born baby

    b) a woman who was out looking for attention at a singles bar (where she was picked up by William Kennedy Smith)
    Well, there could be many different reasons why she would be dressed like that, and that sounds like a very classy outfit to me and not at all "slutty." But anyway, she could have just come from some kind of gathering, or maybe that's just how she dresses?

    I can't see how that could be a valid defense against any level of rape. Just because a person might want to show off his or her body does not mean they are consenting to sex either.

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