View Poll Results: Do you think the US Constitution is a holy, infallible document?

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  • Yes, the Constitution is political perfection and infallible. Worthy of worship.

    3 6.82%
  • No, it was created by men and while it's a good document, let's not get wrapped around the axle.

    35 79.55%
  • The Constitution sucks, we need a new one every few years.

    1 2.27%
  • The Constitution surpasses even politics and is THE document for all of society and civilization.

    5 11.36%
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Thread: Do you think the US Constitution is a holy, infallible document?

  1. #41
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    Re: Do you think the US Constitution is a holy, infallible document?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Please explain exactly how my questions are strawmen.
    You're demanding that I defend claims that I never made, with which I do not agree, and which if I did make and defend them, you could easily refute; as a distraction to avoid addressing anything that I have actually said. This is the very definition of a strawman argument.

    You're not even doing it very well. Most attempts at strawmen arguments are not so puerile and transparent as yours.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  2. #42
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    Re: Do you think the US Constitution is a holy, infallible document?

    I believe we should have a moral of respect for Tradition and the most excellent job our Founding Fathers did at the convention in order to ordain and establish our form of federal government.

  3. #43
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    Re: Do you think the US Constitution is a holy, infallible document?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    OK now you're talking about the constitution (lower-case) of the governments, not its supposedly religious basis.
    the states form the union, the union is bound together by the federal government who power for mostly external, where as the states deal with internal, with the federal government being the arbitrator of problems between states, and people and states.

    our federal government is non religious, however states, did have state religions, after the constitution was ratified, until the early 1810's.

    since you referenced the treaty of Tripoli, by Adams.

    here is Adams on the federal constitution..... "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." .

  4. #44
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    Re: Do you think the US Constitution is a holy, infallible document?

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Some people (especially here) seem to think the US constitution is the end-all and be-all of political thought, and should be adhered to like a holy document. Do you agree? Or is it possible for it to be fallible and, in fact, wrong? Should we follow it as a means to an end, or is following the constitution the highest political end possible?
    Nothing man creates is infallible. Usually everything man creates can be used in more than one way. Even something as innocent as gunpowder can be used for good (when creating fireworks or through mountains to make people travel more safely in regions with loads of mountains) but also for bad (murder, terror, war). Hell, even war can be both good and bad.

    The US constitution was a very good document and for the most it still is, but something written for a few million people living on a relatively small part of Northern America centuries ago, may need to be updated by the wisest men and women of today.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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    Re: Do you think the US Constitution is a holy, infallible document?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    Nothing man creates is infallible. Usually everything man creates can be used in more than one way. Even something as innocent as gunpowder can be used for good (when creating fireworks or through mountains to make people travel more safely in regions with loads of mountains) but also for bad (murder, terror, war). Hell, even war can be both good and bad.

    The US constitution was a very good document and for the most it still is, but something written for a few million people living on a relatively small part of Northern America centuries ago, may need to be updated by the wisest men and women of today.
    our constitution requires an amendment for its change, if the federal government can get the states to agree to change it,.....so be it......but it does require the states of the compact to make that decision, ...not the federal government on its own with people who think they are wiser then the rest of us.

  6. #46
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    Re: Do you think the US Constitution is a holy, infallible document?

    16 to 5ish, that it's not infallible or holy.

    I wonder why so many use it as the end-all and be-all of arguments, then. When they are at odds, should we follow what promotes the interests of Americans or the constitution?
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: Do you think the US Constitution is a holy, infallible document?

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    16 to 5ish, that it's not infallible or holy.

    I wonder why so many use it as the end-all and be-all of arguments, then. When they are at odds, should we follow what promotes the interests of Americans or the constitution?
    Because, bearing true witness instead of false witness to our own laws should important to the greater glory of our immortal souls, as moral and legal ethic in modern times.

  8. #48
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    Re: Do you think the US Constitution is a holy, infallible document?

    Look to original intent when in doubt; we all agree we are a nation of laws, and we all are bound by the enumerated powers of the Fed'l gov't. But the idea is more subtle then "states rights"

    The idea is co sovereignty / the fed's the states AND the people are all sovereign. Federalism is the relationship between the states and the Fed's
    Federalism in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The 10th amendment
    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people
    basic idea of power sharing. Throw this out of whack, and we wind up with the unitary presidency, or the rise of the "ABC" agencies to govern by regulation.

    Obviously the definitions/relationships change over time; but since we're easily willing to just acquiesce to the fed'l gov't powers; we wind up with a bloated DC bureaucracy;
    remote and unable to respond to local concerns.
    Unless anyone out there thinks "one size fits all" mandates is preferable to a nimble localized gov't.

    Medical marijuana is the ex. of late -without the states being the "laboratories of democracy" it wouldn't have happened.

    Laboratories of democracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    This concept explains how within the federal framework, there exists a system of filtration where state and local governments act as “laboratories,” where law is created and enacted from the lowest level of the democratic system, up to the top level.

    The Tenth Amendment of the United States Constitution makes all “powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” This is a basis for the laboratories of democracy concept, because the Tenth Amendment hands a number of responsibilities down to the state and local governments. Policy is experimented on the state level first, before it is on the national level, and because these governments are only tied together by the federal level government, a diverse patchwork of lower government practices is created.

  9. #49
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    Re: Do you think the US Constitution is a holy, infallible document?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    You're demanding that I defend claims that I never made, with which I do not agree, and which if I did make and defend them, you could easily refute; as a distraction to avoid addressing anything that I have actually said. This is the very definition of a strawman argument.

    You're not even doing it very well. Most attempts at strawmen arguments are not so puerile and transparent as yours.
    Again, more childish remarks. Stop beating around the bush and explain specifically how my analysis of your position is wrong.
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton
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  10. #50
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    Re: Do you think the US Constitution is a holy, infallible document?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    the states form the union, the union is bound together by the federal government who power for mostly external, where as the states deal with internal, with the federal government being the arbitrator of problems between states, and people and states.

    our federal government is non religious, however states, did have state religions, after the constitution was ratified, until the early 1810's.

    since you referenced the treaty of Tripoli, by Adams.

    here is Adams on the federal constitution..... "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." .
    Slavery, the Civil War, Jim Crow laws, and the South's response to the Civil Rights movement all prove how disastrous giving state governments too much freedom from the federal government can be. If you're gonna cite amendments, you'd better include the Fourteenth and Ninth as well as just the Second and the Tenth.
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton
    "Innocent until proven guilty is for criminal convictions, not elections." --Mitt Romney

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