View Poll Results: Do you think the US Constitution is a holy, infallible document?

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  • Yes, the Constitution is political perfection and infallible. Worthy of worship.

    3 6.82%
  • No, it was created by men and while it's a good document, let's not get wrapped around the axle.

    35 79.55%
  • The Constitution sucks, we need a new one every few years.

    1 2.27%
  • The Constitution surpasses even politics and is THE document for all of society and civilization.

    5 11.36%
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Thread: Do you think the US Constitution is a holy, infallible document?

  1. #31
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    Re: Do you think the US Constitution is a holy, infallible document?

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    I asked you what religion Bob Baylock (?) could be referring to when he said:
    "MY religion uniquely has a passage of canonized scripture which explicitly states that God inspired the Constitution to be written and established, through men that he raised up specifically for this purpose.

    To me, the Constitution itself is scripture; perhaps not directly the word of God, but very close to it."

    You responded with something about thinking it was Christianity.

    So I, in turn, said "If you are right, that might just be the biggest stretch I've seen to date". Meaning, WTF, is he referring to because I can't think of anything in the Old or New Testament that could be understood in this way.
    Ahh, okay, I think I see where you're coming from. And you're right, nowhere does the Bible predict that a group of white males would someday form a new, conservative Christian government, on a continent that whites did not yet know even existed. Nor does it state that a government should ever do so. Oh, if only the Religious Right accepted that. Sadly, and unfortunately, they do not. And that's putting it very mildly.
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton
    "Innocent until proven guilty is for criminal convictions, not elections." --Mitt Romney

  2. #32
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    Re: Do you think the US Constitution is a holy, infallible document?

    The Constitution is a framework for our governing, while the Bill of Rights lays out explicit rights of the individuals. We are the oldest continuous constitutional republic.

    So you gotta think the Framers did a very good job of setting this up. Franklin's statement sums it up nicely after the Constitutional Convention.

    Our Republic - Benjamin Franklin

    The deliberations of the Constitutional Convention of 1787 were held in strict secrecy.
    Consequently, anxious citizens gathered outside Independence Hall when the proceedings ended in order to learn what had been produced behind closed doors

    The answer was provided immediately. A Mrs. Powel of Philadelphia asked Benjamin Franklin, “Well, Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?”
    With no hesitation whatsoever, Franklin responded, “A republic, if you can keep it.” (Benjamin Franklin)

  3. #33
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    Re: Do you think the US Constitution is a holy, infallible document?

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    I asked you what religion Bob Baylock [sic] (?) could be referring to when he said:
    "MY religion uniquely has a passage of canonized scripture which explicitly states that God inspired the Constitution to be written and established, through men that he raised up specifically for this purpose.

    To me, the Constitution itself is scripture; perhaps not directly the word of God, but very close to it."

    You responded with something about thinking it was Christianity.

    So I, in turn, said "If you are right, that might just be the biggest stretch I've seen to date". Meaning, WTF, is he referring to because I can't think of anything in the Old or New Testament that could be understood in this way.
    I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, more popularly known as the “Mormon church”.

    In addition to the Old and New Testaments of the Bible, we have a number of other volumes of what we also recognize as canonical scripture.

    One of these volumes is the Doctrine and Covenants, and it contains a passage, in which God tells the prophet Joseph Smith the following…

    According to the laws and constitution of the people, which I have suffered to be established, and should be maintained for the rights and protection of all flesh, according to just and holy principles;
    ·
    ·
    ·
    And for this purpose have I established the Constitution of this land, by the hands of wise men whom I raised up unto this very purpose, and redeemed the land by the shedding of blood.

    I have to admit to engaging in a bit of personal interpretation and extrapolation beyond what is explicitly stated here, to get to my own belief that the Constitution is scripture, and that it represents God's will as to how this nation is to be run.


    The other reference that I made is to a more widely-known volume of our scripture, the Book of Mormon; which mostly contains the account of a group that left Israel around 600 BC, traveled to the Americas, and here established a great civilization. After about a thousand years, they fell into wickedness and degradation, and were wiped out.

    Another group left Israel some short time after the main group, also traveled to the Americas, and eventually met up with, and merged into the first group. This second group, before finding the first group, encountered the last survivors and records of a previous civilization that had followed a similar course, having left the Old World shortly after the Tower of Babel, having also crossed the ocean, landed in the Americas, having built up a great society, but eventually fell into wickedness and destruction.

    There is a warning here for our society. God has given us the blueprint for our nation. We can follow it and thrive, or we can disregard it, and fall into destruction.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  4. #34
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    Re: Do you think the US Constitution is a holy, infallible document?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Ahh, okay, I think I see where you're coming from. And you're right, nowhere does the Bible predict that a group of white males would someday form a new, conservative Christian government, on a continent that whites did not yet know even existed. Nor does it state that a government should ever do so. Oh, if only the Religious Right accepted that. Sadly, and unfortunately, they do not. And that's putting it very mildly.
    Okay, sounds like we are clear.

    Like I've always asked- how do you have a conversation with anyone who actually believes the one all knowing God is on their side? I've just never seen that going anywhere.
    "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers" - Voltaire
    "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow men. True nobility lies in being superior to your former self" -Hemingway

  5. #35
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    Re: Do you think the US Constitution is a holy, infallible document?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Ahh, okay, I think I see where you're coming from. And you're right, nowhere does the Bible predict that a group of white males would someday form a new, conservative Christian government, on a continent that whites did not yet know even existed. Nor does it state that a government should ever do so. Oh, if only the Religious Right accepted that. Sadly, and unfortunately, they do not. And that's putting it very mildly.
    Do you think the US Constitution is a holy, infallible document?-images-jpg
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  6. #36
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    Re: Do you think the US Constitution is a holy, infallible document?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, more popularly known as the “Mormon church”.

    In addition to the Old and New Testaments of the Bible, we have a number of other volumes of what we also recognize as canonical scripture.

    One of these volumes is the Doctrine and Covenants, and it contains a passage, in which God tells the prophet Joseph Smith the following…

    According to the laws and constitution of the people, which I have suffered to be established, and should be maintained for the rights and protection of all flesh, according to just and holy principles;
    ·
    ·
    ·
    And for this purpose have I established the Constitution of this land, by the hands of wise men whom I raised up unto this very purpose, and redeemed the land by the shedding of blood.

    I have to admit to engaging in a bit of personal interpretation and extrapolation beyond what is explicitly stated here, to get to my own belief that the Constitution is scripture, and that it represents God's will as to how this nation is to be run.


    The other reference that I made is to a more widely-known volume of our scripture, the Book of Mormon; which mostly contains the account of a group that left Israel around 600 BC, traveled to the Americas, and here established a great civilization. After about a thousand years, they fell into wickedness and degradation, and were wiped out.

    Another group left Israel some short time after the main group, also traveled to the Americas, and eventually met up with, and merged into the first group. This second group, before finding the first group, encountered the last survivors and records of a previous civilization that had followed a similar course, having left the Old World shortly after the Tower of Babel, having also crossed the ocean, landed in the Americas, having built up a great society, but eventually fell into wickedness and destruction.

    There is a warning here for our society. God has given us the blueprint for our nation. We can follow it and thrive, or we can disregard it, and fall into destruction.
    I don't like to challenge other peoples religious beliefs. I prefer not to debate the validity, or lack thereof, when it comes to claims made by any religion and it's doctrine. Believe what you believe and I hope it brings you peace and inspiration.

    The struggle I have with the religious minded is when they impose devotion or adherence to the principles or rules of their doctrine on people of different faiths or on non-believers. I won't ask believers not to believe or practice in their private lives things that I consider most healthy and rewarding but I expect the same consideration in return.
    Last edited by opendebate; 02-15-14 at 10:47 PM.
    "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers" - Voltaire
    "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow men. True nobility lies in being superior to your former self" -Hemingway

  7. #37
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    Re: Do you think the US Constitution is a holy, infallible document?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    Do you think the US Constitution is a holy, infallible document?-images-jpg
    Already resorting to infantile responses? That didn't take long. Can you please show us where in the Bible it commands a nation--which had yet to exist at the time--to base its government on a specific and contrived interpretation of said Bible?
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton
    "Innocent until proven guilty is for criminal convictions, not elections." --Mitt Romney

  8. #38
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    Re: Do you think the US Constitution is a holy, infallible document?

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    I don't like to challenge other peoples religious beliefs. I prefer not to debate the validity, or lack thereof, when it comes to claims made by any religion and it's doctrine. Believe what you believe and I hope it brings you peace and inspiration.

    The struggle I have with the religious minded is when they impose devotion or adherence to the principles or rules of their doctrine on people of different faiths or on non-believers. I won't ask believers not to believe or practice in their private lives things that I consider most healthy and rewarding but I expect the same consideration in return.
    Some religious people choose to give this consideration. Other religious people choose not to.

    Exactly one of these groups deserves respect.
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton
    "Innocent until proven guilty is for criminal convictions, not elections." --Mitt Romney

  9. #39
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    Re: Do you think the US Constitution is a holy, infallible document?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Already resorting to infantile responses? That didn't take long. Can you please show us where in the Bible it commands a nation--which had yet to exist at the time--to base its government on a specific and contrived interpretation of said Bible?
    Do you think the US Constitution is a holy, infallible document?-straw_man2-jpg
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  10. #40
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    Re: Do you think the US Constitution is a holy, infallible document?

    Please explain exactly how my questions are strawmen.
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton
    "Innocent until proven guilty is for criminal convictions, not elections." --Mitt Romney

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