View Poll Results: Why are these "entitlements" not a part of our National dialogue?

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14. You may not vote on this poll
  • Political pressure from the wealthy.

    5 35.71%
  • Ignorance of the non-wealthy.

    4 28.57%
  • It's simply not true.

    3 21.43%
  • Other.

    2 14.29%
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Thread: 5 Ways Rich People's "Entitlements" Cheat You and Me

  1. #41
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    Re: 5 Ways Rich People's "Entitlements" Cheat You and Me

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    5 Ways Rich People's "Entitlements" Cheat You and MeAdded Poll to the thread for DaveFagan.
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    Re: 5 Ways Rich People's "Entitlements" Cheat You and Me

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Uh the proper solution is for them to be taxed on the capital gains based on the basis at which the stocks was bought at versus the sale price

    its the sale of property that should trigger taxes

    what is idiotic is what happens with lots of old money families-your grandparents own an expensive painting. When your father inherited it-a hefty tax was paid on it. Then you inherit it and another hefty tax is paid it even though the value of the painting might still be the 5 million your grandfather paid for it with already taxed dollars. So 5 million that was after tax dollars is taxed again twice

    that is the thing death tax advocates never want to talk about
    Actually, it's the transfer of ownership that should trigger the tax assessment

    But I agree that taxes should only be assessed on the gain and not the total value of the asset
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  3. #43
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    Re: 5 Ways Rich People's "Entitlements" Cheat You and Me

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Actually, a lot of the money that is passed on in an estate was never taxed

    For example, imagine you're rich. You don't want to stick your millions in a savings acct and earn a measly 1% interest, so you invest in the stock market. You buy $10million worth of stocks and hold on to it. Eventually, the value increases to $20 million and then you die.

    Your heir(s) inherit $20 million but $10 million of that money was never taxed because the gain of $10 million was never recognized as income because you never sold the shares.
    Then change THAT. I'm not even sure that's true, actually. If it is? Then the deceased final tax return should address that, no? Wouldn't that be more fair than what can amount to a confiscatory estate tax?

    The reason I'm not sure if it's true is that I handled the estate of a millionaire about three years ago. She had countless annuities. Those annuities were taxed on her final return. Stocks may well be different. But if they are, I would say THAT tax law should be changed. It would be more fair and easier to defend.

  4. #44
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    Re: 5 Ways Rich People's "Entitlements" Cheat You and Me

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Actually, a lot of the money that is passed on in an estate was never taxed

    For example, imagine you're rich. You don't want to stick your millions in a savings acct and earn a measly 1% interest, so you invest in the stock market. You buy $10million worth of stocks and hold on to it. Eventually, the value increases to $20 million and then you die.

    Your heir(s) inherit $20 million but $10 million of that money was never taxed because the gain of $10 million was never recognized as income because you never sold the shares.
    Your 10 million buck investment in the stock market is one of the things that makes capitalism work. Incentives to invest are a good thing all in all.

  5. #45
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    Re: 5 Ways Rich People's "Entitlements" Cheat You and Me

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Then change THAT. I'm not even sure that's true, actually. If it is? Then the deceased final tax return should address that, no? Wouldn't that be more fair than what can amount to a confiscatory estate tax?
    I agree. I was just addressing your claim that all of that money had already been taxed. It's a common misconception people make because all of the money *they* have has been taxed. However, the rich have ways of deferring the taxation of a lot of their income.

    The reason I'm not sure if it's true is that I handled the estate of a millionaire about three years ago. She had countless annuities. Those annuities were taxed on her final return. Stocks may well be different. But if they are, I would say THAT tax law should be changed. It would be more fair and easier to defend.
    Annuities aren't income AFAIK. If I buy an annuity with my money (which presumably, has already been taxed), the money I receive from the annuity is just a distribution of my already taxed money.

    ANd yes, the stock holdings (and other capital assets) should be examined to determine what portion of them have already been taxed.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  6. #46
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    Re: 5 Ways Rich People's "Entitlements" Cheat You and Me

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Your 10 million buck investment in the stock market is one of the things that makes capitalism work. Incentives to invest are a good thing all in all.
    So is the labor of people who work for a living, but that doesn't make labor exempt from taxation
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  7. #47
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    Re: 5 Ways Rich People's "Entitlements" Cheat You and Me

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    And exactly what is accomplished by "going after" and prosecuting these ...one in a thousand ....crooks ??
    Do the people really benefit ?
    Its my contention that we need more tolerance and forgiveness in our society.
    But, since the ""one-in-a-thousand"" do exist, we need regulations, more strict enforced rules.
    Well, the USA has more citizens in jail, per capita, than any other Nation. Replace those marijuana smokers in jail with bankers and society will benefit greatly. Sow some fear of prosecution in the banking community and perhaps the business community and the situation might resolve itself. Don't ignore the Military/Industrial/Corporate siphon hoses to the taxpayer wallets. They'd look good in stripes, orange jump suits, pink underwear and buttcovers with three stars so everybody will know how important they are.

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    Re: 5 Ways Rich People's "Entitlements" Cheat You and Me

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    So is the labor of people who work for a living, but that doesn't make labor exempt from taxation
    Your incentive to work is for a paycheck, Your incentive to invest and risk losing your money is tax benefits. The tax "dodge" is one of the things that makes the risk more palatable.

  9. #49
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    Re: 5 Ways Rich People's "Entitlements" Cheat You and Me

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Annuities aren't income AFAIK. If I buy an annuity with my money (which presumably, has already been taxed), the money I receive from the annuity is just a distribution of my already taxed money.

    ANd yes, the stock holdings (and other capital assets) should be examined to determine what portion of them have already been taxed.
    No. Generally, after-tax money purchases the annuity. The income earned from that annuity is tax-deferred. That can, believe me, be a sizeable chunk of change. As an example, this woman purchased an annuity 30-some years ago (that and many others, by the way). When she died, the annuity cashed out at over $120,000...$100,000 was taxed on her final tax return.

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    Re: 5 Ways Rich People's "Entitlements" Cheat You and Me

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    So is the labor of people who work for a living, but that doesn't make labor exempt from taxation
    The first peace-time income tax in the United States was a flat 2% on incomes over $4,000. Fewer than 10% paid any tax at all. That $4,000, inflation adjusted from 1913, would be $108,000 today.

    Let's go back to the good old days!!

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