View Poll Results: Is religious freedom actually possible?

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Thread: Is religious freedom actually possible

  1. #81
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    Re: Is religious freedom actually possible

    Where an issue of religion (or ideology) comes into play is in terms of commerce - the duty to engage in actions you think are evil if you want to participate in the economic system.

    For example, the lawsuit against the baker who wouldn't do a cake for a gay wedding. That would be an example of the OP's topic.

    Is it political correctness being now required and contrary to beliefs? Although obscure, there are religions that have racial aspects. If you had a business making signs and someone wanted a bunch of KKK and racists signs saying "N....ers Are Demons" - could you refuse? And if you did, isn't that religious discrimination?

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    Re: Is religious freedom actually possible

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Freedom of Religion can be held up as easily as any other right. It's one restriction is the one restriction on all rights, you cannot infringe upon the rights of others in the exercise of your own. Seems pretty darn straight forward.
    Actually it is more than that. You can be compelled to participate, not just infringe.

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    Re: Is religious freedom actually possible

    Quote Originally Posted by brothern View Post
    We as a society have decided that specific "freedoms of conscious" do not deserve tolerance.

    A business may not refuse service based on a person’s race, religion, sex, or other "protected characteristics."
    So then a sign painter couldn't refuse to make signs for the Westboro Church to protest service members burials.

    What about an actor being hired to do a commercial condemning Muslims on a religious level as satanic on behalf of another religion? Would refusing be "religious discrimination?"

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    Re: Is religious freedom actually possible

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    That assumes that Jesus was actually real and that anything described in the Bible actually happened.
    Are you even aware of what the topic is?

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    Re: Is religious freedom actually possible

    Quote Originally Posted by JJB3333 View Post
    So ive done some thinking in the time since i last created a thread and this is one of the questions that has come up in my mind often. Now many of you will say yes and not bother to read this and others of you will say no and still not read this. So here is what i am going to do. im going to keep typing and hope someone bothers to read this.

    So lets start off with an example. Personally im a supporter of gay/lesbian/bi rights, but consider how many religions exist out there that condemn homosexuality. And no this is not just rapping on Christianity. People groups in Islam,Judaism, im pretty sure Hinduism and Buddhism too, all put it down. And yet, if the gay rights activists are to be believed, then being gay/lesbian/bi is not a choice but a way of life chosen for them like being strait or homophobic is for the rest of us. Now, if all of those religions say put it down, and the government and the rest of the world is saying go screw your religion and let it happen, is religious freedom actually happening?

    Again, i personally support gay rights, but i also believe in Christ as my savior. So if someone could clear it up for me without becoming a heated debate over why everyone hates me for bringing this up, it would be much obliged.
    its possible but only to a point and that point is being able to control what you do personally based on your religion but not being able to forcibly control what other people do or what happens to them based just on your religion

    acting to prevent gay rights based on your religion alone goes over that line

    taking away your employees access to contraceptives through their company's health care plans based on your religion alone goes over that line

    saving some one from being murdered because your religion says don't kill is ok because your freedom goes out the window when your using it to take away the freedom of others any way

    though preventing abortion based on your religion alone would still be a no no if a fetus is only a person based on your religion

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    Re: Is religious freedom actually possible

    I have had freedom of religion so far in my life. As a follower of Rev. Martin Luther I am not required to witness, and I very rarely do. If I did I would mention that the passage "It is an abomination unto God to lie with a man as you would lie with a woman", is obviously directed at heterosexual men. A homosexual man would never lie with a woman, so they are not the intended audience.

    Study the ancient Greeks, Plato, Socrates etc.

    You will find that that Bible passage was needed to keep heterosexual men from wasting seed with other men. I'm sorry to say it was a very common practice back then.

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    Re: Is religious freedom actually possible

    Quote Originally Posted by brothern View Post
    You can't discriminate against gays or females or racial minorities. Aww shucks. Such a hard life.
    You seem to have a closed, intolerant mind. No matter. It would have been nice if you thought for 5 seconds.
    Of course, you can discriminate and people do it all the time. They just change their business model. The cup cake makers who did not want to sell to gays simply closed shop and became a private seller. The Boy Scouts is another example.

    Unlike you, apparently, I have faith in mankind and believe that these things work themselves out over time. In the meantime, there is not reason to run roughshod over people. Or be condescending.

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    Re: Is religious freedom actually possible

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    So then a sign painter couldn't refuse to make signs for the Westboro Church to protest service members burials.

    What about an actor being hired to do a commercial condemning Muslims on a religious level as satanic on behalf of another religion? Would refusing be "religious discrimination?"
    It's why we have courts and well defined Civil Rights legislation, joko.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric7216 View Post
    You seem to have a closed, intolerant mind. No matter. It would have been nice if you thought for 5 seconds.
    Of course, you can discriminate and people do it all the time. They just change their business model. The cup cake makers who did not want to sell to gays simply closed shop and became a private seller. The Boy Scouts is another example. Unlike you, apparently, I have faith in mankind and believe that these things work themselves out over time. In the meantime, there is not reason to run roughshod over people. Or be condescending.
    You're out of touch with reality if you've convinced yourself that you're going to sway anyone's opinion into allowing racism and discrimination.
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    Re: Is religious freedom actually possible

    Quote Originally Posted by brothern View Post
    It's why we have courts and well defined Civil Rights legislation, joko.


    You're out of touch with reality if you've convinced yourself that you're going to sway anyone's opinion into allowing racism and discrimination.
    I don't really care about convincing anyone. The Constitution says what it says. The Supreme Court validated the right of the Boy Scouts to discriminate. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights guarantees freedom of conscience. The photographer who refuses to take pictures of a SS wedding is as intolerant as the SS couple that sues the photographer. Perhaps you would think differently if some African American gun dealer refused to sell a gun to some white man with racist tattoos despite everything else being legal. I would support the gun dealer while you would support the racist.

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    Re: Is religious freedom actually possible

    Quote Originally Posted by brothern View Post
    It's why we have courts and well defined Civil Rights legislation, joko.
    .
    Yes but there are areas where civil rights and other BOR issues may conflict with how some religious person wishes to practice their religious freedom....that was a point I was trying to make....

    Is the OP asking if someone can have complete religious freedom within the US under our Constitution?
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