View Poll Results: Is religious freedom actually possible?

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Thread: Is religious freedom actually possible

  1. #71
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    Re: Is religious freedom actually possible

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I don't care if you're gay and nor does libertarianism. If you support forcing people into service for others and ignoring the right of property owners to control access and use of their property you're a faux libertarian.
    I stopped believing in abstract ideologies and praising zealous puritanism after the first couple of slurs and threats of physical violence directed towards me.
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    Re: Is religious freedom actually possible

    Quote Originally Posted by brothern View Post
    I stopped believing in abstract ideologies and praising zealous puritanism after the first couple of slurs and threats of physical violence directed towards me.
    That's great, but again, I don't care about you being gay. Why you feel it matters one bit to me or the argument in front of you that you're gay is beyond me. What you happen to be doesn't change the argument one bit, nor does it affect it. If it is their service and property you still need their agreement for the business transaction to commence or continue.

  3. #73
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    Re: Is religious freedom actually possible

    I think it is possible as long as you keep your belief system to yourself.

    Welllllll....uhhhhhhh......probably not that possible.
    .

  4. #74
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    Re: Is religious freedom actually possible

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    That's great, but again, I don't care about you being gay. Why you feel it matters one bit to me or the argument in front of you that you're gay is beyond me. What you happen to be doesn't change the argument one bit, nor does it affect it. If it is their service and property you still need their agreement for the business transaction to commence or continue.
    That's fine and dandy for you, but it's where libertarianism falters and fails. People do care about trivial things such as race, gender or creed, and many seek to specifically harm those groups.

    You may drone on about "self-correction," property rights or how you have never been targeted for pervasive discrimination in your life; but it's wasted words when it came to almost all instances of widespread discrimination that we've faced as a country. However with the benefit of hindsight and extensive empirical research done in the Deep South, we as a free society have outlined specific rules for living here. One of those rules is that business may not refuse service based on a person’s race, religion, sex, or other "protected characteristics."

    If you don't like it, move it to North Korea.
    Last edited by brothern; 02-12-14 at 01:35 AM.
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    Re: Is religious freedom actually possible

    Quote Originally Posted by brothern View Post
    That's fine and dandy for you, but it's where libertarianism falters and fails. People do care about trivial things such as race, gender or creed, and many seek to specifically harm those groups.
    Your point is what? Being denied service or employment you were never owed in the first place is hardly a harm.

    You may drone on about "self-correction," property rights or how you have never been targeted for pervasive discrimination in your life; but it's wasted words when it came to almost all instances of widespread discrimination that we've faced as a country. However with the benefit of hindsight and extensive empirical research done in the Deep South, we as a free society have outlined specific rules for living here. One of those rules is that business may not refuse service based on a person’s race, religion, sex, or other "protected characteristics."
    I didn't even mention self correction, but I find myself interested in how we can be a free society and not protect property rights.

    If you don't like it, move it to North Korea.
    Do you guys spin a wheel filled with the names of countries every time you decide to tell me to go to a country?

  6. #76
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    Re: Is religious freedom actually possible

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I don't care if you're gay and nor does libertarianism. If you support forcing people into service for others and ignoring the right of property owners to control access and use of their property you're a faux libertarian.
    This liberal actually agrees with you. Libertarianism is based on a set of assumptions that, if accepted, lead to an inflexible dogma, and damn the consequences. But you are right, there is no libertarianism without acceptance of those assumptions, and their logical conclusions.
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    Re: Is religious freedom actually possible

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Lots of luck with that. Most of humanity begs to differ.
    I know Goshin, I know.

    Whether it will eventually happen one day is anyone's guess. In the meantime I am revealing my position on religion and what kind of "freedom" it provides to its followers. It is a neverchanging, dull, fictional stories establishment with no evidence to support its claims, that keeps on repeating over and over again in centuries, constantly trapping people into dogma.

    Compare that to statements based on evidence built on ever changing studies that matches the always changing reality, life, and chaos - science. Innovation, change, and light are here for you to enlighten yourself and be free instead.
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
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  8. #78
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    Re: Is religious freedom actually possible

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    This liberal actually agrees with you. Libertarianism is based on a set of assumptions that, if accepted, lead to an inflexible dogma, and damn the consequences. But you are right, there is no libertarianism without acceptance of those assumptions, and their logical conclusions.
    Lets call them principles, damn. I really have no way to know if brothern knows it or not, but by supporting people being forced into service he supports involuntary servitude and that is no small violation of the non-aggression principle, but the most fundamental of violations that shows a clear disagreement with the very foundation of the philosophy itself.

    As for the consequences, if you are going to be libertarian you have to accept that freedom has consequences and sometimes people will do things that you find disagreeable, stupid, or even hateful, but that doesn't mean they are in violation of anyones rights, and it doesn't mean the state should act.

  9. #79
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    Re: Is religious freedom actually possible

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    You don't know that.
    Hence the 'probably.'
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    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
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    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  10. #80
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    Re: Is religious freedom actually possible

    Quote Originally Posted by JJB3333 View Post
    So ive done some thinking in the time since i last created a thread and this is one of the questions that has come up in my mind often. Now many of you will say yes and not bother to read this and others of you will say no and still not read this. So here is what i am going to do. im going to keep typing and hope someone bothers to read this.

    So lets start off with an example. Personally im a supporter of gay/lesbian/bi rights, but consider how many religions exist out there that condemn homosexuality. And no this is not just rapping on Christianity. People groups in Islam,Judaism, im pretty sure Hinduism and Buddhism too, all put it down. And yet, if the gay rights activists are to be believed, then being gay/lesbian/bi is not a choice but a way of life chosen for them like being strait or homophobic is for the rest of us. Now, if all of those religions say put it down, and the government and the rest of the world is saying go screw your religion and let it happen, is religious freedom actually happening?

    Again, i personally support gay rights, but i also believe in Christ as my savior. So if someone could clear it up for me without becoming a heated debate over why everyone hates me for bringing this up, it would be much obliged.
    I understand your thinking but you have it backwards. Where you would have a point is if the government was requiring you to have gay sex.

    Nor does your thinking limit to religion, but everything. For example, many people think eating meat is evil. Is allowing people to eat meat then refusing those people their beliefs? You can fully believe being gay is wrong, sinful, sends a person to hell or whatever other beliefs you have. But the government forcing people to live and be punished in enforcement of your beliefs is a different matter.

    The other question is why does Christian so focus on gay rights issues? Why not on adultery? Or fornication? Or theft? Or violence? Or heresy? Or any of the other "shalt nots?"

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