View Poll Results: Is religious freedom actually possible?

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  • Yes

    31 57.41%
  • No

    15 27.78%
  • Maybe

    6 11.11%
  • I didnt bother reading the post so yes

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  • I didn't bother reading the post so no

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Thread: Is religious freedom actually possible

  1. #41
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    Re: Is religious freedom actually possible

    Having read most of the thread now, I wonder at how someone in the US, as an individual, is prevented from completely enjoying religious freedom?

    I can think of a few examples: certain hallucinogenics used in ceremonies are illegal. Polygamy is no longer legal. Certain business practices compel a business owner to serve people or provide services they object to on religious grounds.

    Other examples include cutting off a thief's hand. Stoning an adulteress.

    In an American context, all the examples that come quickly to mind can be resolved by being based on how they infringe on the freedoms of others. Drugs, polygamy...I have no objection to making legal. They are choices made by consenting adults.

    Bodily harm to thieves and adulterers....cruel and unusual punishment. An unreasonable infringement on their ''freedom".

    The one regarding businesses is less clear cut for me. I understand how some people can find some things objectionable in relation to their religion. For the most part, I believe that accepting a business license from the state legally binds a business owner to serve everyone. That they knowingly enter into that contract with the state and know they must uphold it and choose their business/business practices accordingly.
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  2. #42
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    Re: Is religious freedom actually possible

    If your religious freedom is violated because I get married and that is against your religion, then that is your problem.
    Do you feel that you are violating Muslims religious freedom because you eat pork?
    Are you violating Hindus religious freedom by eating a cow?
    Are you violating Jewish peoples religious freedom because you don't keep a kosher diet?
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  3. #43
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    Re: Is religious freedom actually possible

    Quote Originally Posted by JJB3333 View Post
    So ive done some thinking in the time since i last created a thread and this is one of the questions that has come up in my mind often. Now many of you will say yes and not bother to read this and others of you will say no and still not read this. So here is what i am going to do. im going to keep typing and hope someone bothers to read this.

    So lets start off with an example. Personally im a supporter of gay/lesbian/bi rights, but consider how many religions exist out there that condemn homosexuality. And no this is not just rapping on Christianity. People groups in Islam,Judaism, im pretty sure Hinduism and Buddhism too, all put it down. And yet, if the gay rights activists are to be believed, then being gay/lesbian/bi is not a choice but a way of life chosen for them like being strait or homophobic is for the rest of us. Now, if all of those religions say put it down, and the government and the rest of the world is saying go screw your religion and let it happen, is religious freedom actually happening?

    Again, i personally support gay rights, but i also believe in Christ as my savior. So if someone could clear it up for me without becoming a heated debate over why everyone hates me for bringing this up, it would be much obliged.
    Freedom of Religion can be held up as easily as any other right. It's one restriction is the one restriction on all rights, you cannot infringe upon the rights of others in the exercise of your own. Seems pretty darn straight forward.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Is religious freedom actually possible

    Quote Originally Posted by JJB3333 View Post
    So ive done some thinking in the time since i last created a thread and this is one of the questions that has come up in my mind often. Now many of you will say yes and not bother to read this and others of you will say no and still not read this. So here is what i am going to do. im going to keep typing and hope someone bothers to read this.

    So lets start off with an example. Personally im a supporter of gay/lesbian/bi rights, but consider how many religions exist out there that condemn homosexuality. And no this is not just rapping on Christianity. People groups in Islam,Judaism, im pretty sure Hinduism and Buddhism too, all put it down. And yet, if the gay rights activists are to be believed, then being gay/lesbian/bi is not a choice but a way of life chosen for them like being strait or homophobic is for the rest of us. Now, if all of those religions say put it down, and the government and the rest of the world is saying go screw your religion and let it happen, is religious freedom actually happening?

    Again, i personally support gay rights, but i also believe in Christ as my savior. So if someone could clear it up for me without becoming a heated debate over why everyone hates me for bringing this up, it would be much obliged.
    One's rights end where another person's begins. Depriving someone else of their rights is not a legitimate right. That is why we don't allow religions to do human sacrifices anymore. That should apply to the attempts of some religions to deny their employees access to health insurance birth control also.

  5. #45
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    Re: Is religious freedom actually possible

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    How about we found the Everybody Mind Their Own Damn Business party?


    Works for me. If you ain't doing it in my house or yard, or in my vehicle, or hurting me with it directly, or trying to shove it down my throat... I don't really much care.
    I heard that Ben Franklin wanted "Mind your (own) Business" on our currency. I wish he got his way on that one. Mind Your Own Business

  6. #46
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    Re: Is religious freedom actually possible

    Quote Originally Posted by JJB3333 View Post
    So ive done some thinking in the time since i last created a thread and this is one of the questions that has come up in my mind often. Now many of you will say yes and not bother to read this and others of you will say no and still not read this. So here is what i am going to do. im going to keep typing and hope someone bothers to read this.

    So lets start off with an example. Personally im a supporter of gay/lesbian/bi rights, but consider how many religions exist out there that condemn homosexuality. And no this is not just rapping on Christianity. People groups in Islam,Judaism, im pretty sure Hinduism and Buddhism too, all put it down. And yet, if the gay rights activists are to be believed, then being gay/lesbian/bi is not a choice but a way of life chosen for them like being strait or homophobic is for the rest of us. Now, if all of those religions say put it down, and the government and the rest of the world is saying go screw your religion and let it happen, is religious freedom actually happening?

    Again, i personally support gay rights, but i also believe in Christ as my savior. So if someone could clear it up for me without becoming a heated debate over why everyone hates me for bringing this up, it would be much obliged.
    Obviously not, because those who believe homosexuality is a sin, cannot be allowed to maintain that belief. You really could have just answered your own question without help. All other beliefs become irrelevant because you have disallowed the belief against homosexuality, thus perfect religious freedom is impossible.

    /thread
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  7. #47
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    Re: Is religious freedom actually possible

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Obviously not, because those who believe homosexuality is a sin, cannot be allowed to maintain that belief. You really could have just answered your own question without help. All other beliefs become irrelevant because you have disallowed the belief against homosexuality, thus perfect religious freedom is impossible.

    /thread
    You can in fact maintain that belief. No one is going to force your mind different. You do not have to like homosexuality, you do not have to accept it, you can preach against it all you want. It's stupid and dishonest to claim otherwise.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  8. #48
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    Re: Is religious freedom actually possible

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    One's rights end where another person's begins. Depriving someone else of their rights is not a legitimate right. That is why we don't allow religions to do human sacrifices anymore. That should apply to the attempts of some religions to deny their employees access to health insurance birth control also.
    Health insurance is not a right nor is birth control. Comparing human sacrifice to not providing someone a service is idiotic.

  9. #49
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    Re: Is religious freedom actually possible

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    I can't speak for Hinduism, but Theravada Buddhism has no problems with gays, equal rights for them etc. In fact there is a gay couple that attend one of the Wats the wife and I go. The idea is to teach everyone the four noble truths and to have each of us start on the 8 fold path to enlightenment. Being a man, a woman, a gay, has no bearing.
    You beat me to it, my friend. I have never heard of a Buddhist tradition that does not accept gay people. Sexual orientation doesn't matter, and it shouldn't. It has nothing to do with Buddhism.
    Last edited by Risky Thicket; 02-11-14 at 09:06 PM.










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  10. #50
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    Re: Is religious freedom actually possible

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Nah. Anarchy doesn't work so well, or requires re-inventing government by other names.

    But MYODB is pretty much how I live my life. I rarely stick my nose into others' business uninvited, if it isn't hurting me or someone I care about directly.

    Guy up the road likes to smoke a little wacky weed on his back porch some weekends... do I approve? No. Haven't turned him in tho, nor gone out of my way to lecture him on the Evils of Marajeewanna. Not my problem, as long as it stays on his back porch.

    I work with two lesbians. Do I approve of their lifestyle? Nope. Have I done or said anything about it? Nope. Not my business.


    Now I'll help someone out in a heartbeat. Stuck? I gots 4WD and a tow-strap, yeah I'll come pull you outta the ditch. Out of kerosene with snow on the way? If I can spare it I'll loan you a few bucks, sure.

    But mostly I say 'Its your chicken, you pluck it YOUR way."
    Bingo! Same, same me. Many people are that way as well. It seems pretty simple to me. Why others can't live that way is a mystery.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



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