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Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights? [W:85]

Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

  • Total voters
    62
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

haymarket said:
The Court has the responsibility and power to interpret the Constitution.

Answer these two questions which are central to you 'theory' (if such extremists ramblings can rise to that level)

Can you provide us with a single us supreme court decision which agrees with your interpretation on this matter in the last 225 years?

Who is it that you believe congress is empowered to pass all these laws for and what support can you find for that?
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will will put it simple to you...no! BECAUSE I AM HOLDING YOUR FEET TO THE FIRE HERE, .........your not going to retreat from what you stated about the founders, and run to the court for cover AGAIN AGAIN AGAIN X10.......stick to what you said,. and stop trying to divert, and claim something else.

as i stated to you many many times, ...the founders destroy your arguments about the constitution, and your ideas for collectivism in America.
 
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

ernst barkmann said:
will will put it simple to you...no! BECAUSE I AM HOLDING YOUR FEET TO THE FIRE HERE, .........your not going to retreat from what you stated about the founders, and run to the court for cover AGAIN AGAIN AGAIN X10.......stick to what you said,. and stop trying to divert, and claim something else.

as i stated to you many many times, ...the founders destroy your arguments about the constitution, and your ideas for collectivism in America.
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I have no idea what you are ranting about. No idea at all. Its like you are not in the same real world with the rest of us. You argue in a fantasy world totally divorced for America as it is in 2014 and as the law has been for the past 225 years as interpreted by the Supreme Court and as passed by the Congress.

Its like you live in some giant tomb in which Madison is buried and you constantly commune with his spirit and nobody in the real USA of 2014 has any contact with you because your views are so divorced from reality.


FACT: Your precious Founders gave us the Constitution.
FACT: No individuals opinion overrides the Constitution.
FACT: The US Supreme Court interprets the Constitution and it has the force of law.

So your rantings are irrelevant and inconsequential.

Answer these two questions which are central to you 'theory' (if such extremists ramblings can rise to that level)

Can you provide us with a single us supreme court decision which agrees with your interpretation on this matter in the last 225 years?

Who is it that you believe congress is empowered to pass all these laws for and what support can you find for that?

Your ridiculous ravings that the Congress cannot pass laws which apply to the American people are akin to the delusions of a political lunatic. There is no support in law or in US jurisprudence for such madness.







 
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Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

haymarket said:
i have no idea what you are ranting about. No idea at all.
Fact: Your precious founders gave us the constitution.
Fact: No individuals opinion overrides the constitution.
Fact: The us supreme court interprets the constitution and it has the force of law.

So your rantings are irrelevant and inconsequential.

Answer these two questions which are central to you 'theory' (if such extremists ramblings can rise to that level)

can you provide us with a single us supreme court decision which agrees with your interpretation on this matter in the last 225 years?

Who is it that you believe congress is empowered to pass all these laws for and what support can you find for that?

Your insane ravings that the congress cannot pass laws which apply to the american people are akin to the delusions of a political lunatic. There is no support in law or in us jurisprudence for such madness.







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i don't need to.......i stated something, and showed proof by the founders backing up what i had to say......

You stated the founders, ...yet you have shown nothing to back you up by the founders, and instead have turned to the courts, to give you cover.

Stop citing the founders ......it makes you look foolish!
 
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

ernst barkmann said:
i don't need to.......i stated something, and showed proof by the founders backing up what i had to say......

You stated the founders, ...yet you have shown nothing to back you up by the founders, and instead have turned to the courts, to give you cover.

Stop citing the founders ......it makes you look foolish!
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Everybody has a right to their own opinion. However, you do not have a right to your own alternate reality which has nothing to do with the reality everybody else lives in in USA 2014 and then attempt to use that alternate reality to refute actual reality that everyone else lives under.

The opinion of a founder is not proof for your absurd and ridiculous contention that the Congress cannot pass laws for the American people. You have shown not one iota of any proof that Congress cannot pass laws for the American people.

Not only is that an absurd thing to claim - but what is even more insane is you believing that you have proof of it.

I have no idea what you are talking about with me citing the founders looking foolish. Although it is a whole lot better than look bat guano insane as you come off with your claims that the Congress cannot pass laws for the American people. Anybody taking a position like that is simply in a delusional world that is completely divorced from the USA we all live in.

More and more and more - trying to discuss this with you is like trying to discuss rational thought with a complete madman who lives in their own insane wonderland.
 
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Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

Herr Barkmann
What is your verifiable proof that Congress cannot pass laws for the American people?
 
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

haymarket said:
Herr Barkmann
What is your verifiable proof that Congress cannot pass laws for the American people?
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cannot pass laws?

nothing prevents that because we don't have true republican government anymore, however citing it to you again..... first : from the father of the u.s. constitution.

federalist 45
The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government, are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects[, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected.

The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State.

life's of the American people, are not external!...they are internal, and power of the states


second: what powers of the congress, in article 1 section 8, have anything to do with the personal lifes of the people......i have asked this question already, and you will not answer it.


again.... you cited the founders believed in collectivism, and that the powers of congress can be involved in the life's of the people.......YET!....you provide no proof from the founders...........but INSTEAD turn to the courts......to give you cover, for your incorrect statements.
 
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Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

ernst barkmann said:
cannot pass laws?

nothing prevents that because we don't have true republican government anymore, however citing it to you again..... first : from the father of the u.s. constitution.

federalist 45
The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government, are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects[, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected.

The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State.

life's of the American people, are not external!...they are internal, and power of the states


second: what powers of the congress, in article 1 section 8, have anything to do with the personal lifes of the people......i have asked this question already, and you will not answer it.


again.... you cited the founders believed in collectivism, and that the powers of congress can be involved in the life's of the people.......YET!....you provide no proof from the founders...........but INSTEAD turn to the courts......to give you cover, for your incorrect statements.
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The opinion of an individual does not override the document itself. Your so called proof is irrelevant and not applicable.

Article I Section 8 - already cited and produced here by me - clearly gives COngress the power to pass laws for the nation and its people in the areas listed. You ask for proof and there it is - the Constitution itself written by the Founders and adopted and ratified by the states. To pretend otherwise is to deny reality.
 
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

ernst barkmann said:
i don't see it that way, if i beat you or do something physical i can agree,............. however if you violate my rights on my property, your rights in my [opinion] do apply, expect for the right to life.

i don't see how you can assert rights of your own, after you just violated mine.
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I'm sure you meant do not there. However, you seem to be changing the goal posts. At what point did the hypothetical situation become one of me on your property without permission? We may have been working from different sides of the issue here. I will agree that if I violated your rights by entering on to your property without permission (and setting aside the common practice of entering onto a property to seek help or make an inquiry without seeking prior permission) then any rights I have are suspended including the right to life depending on the situation. However, you have not at any point noted the specific of my being on your property without permission. Here is the original statement I responded to:
ernst barkmann said:
come on to my property and you can be searched by me, but anyone using sound judgement, better be sure the reason they do a search, not just to exercise that power.

Now if someone would steal from you, property from your .. ie......store, naturally you would call the law.

But if you on my land, house i can use my power to search you.
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There is also this statement:
ernst barkmann said:
I agree, I would not search you for no reason, unless your present I felt was a threat to me, or my property.
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Neither indicates a lack of permission to be on the property, although with the context of post 407, which I did not have before, I can see it somewhat in the later statement. Simply being on your property does not give you permission to violate my right to be secure in my person, unless and until I violate your rights.
 
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

maquiscat said:
I'm sure you meant do not there. However, you seem to be changing the goal posts. At what point did the hypothetical situation become one of me on your property without permission? We may have been working from different sides of the issue here. I will agree that if I violated your rights by entering on to your property without permission (and setting aside the common practice of entering onto a property to seek help or make an inquiry without seeking prior permission) then any rights I have are suspended including the right to life depending on the situation. However, you have not at any point noted the specific of my being on your property without permission. Here is the original statement I responded to:


There is also this statement:


Neither indicates a lack of permission to be on the property, although with the context of post 407, which I did not have before, I can see it somewhat in the later statement. Simply being on your property does not give you permission to violate my right to be secure in my person, unless and until I violate your rights.
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let me put it into context, using sound judgement.

if a person enters my business which would be my property, and he violates my rights by stealing my property, i have the power to restrain that person [ his liberty ],..... since my business would be more then likely be located in a populated area since i seek to do commerce with people, i would restrain and call the police.

if you come onto my land, house, and i believe you threaten me, or that property, i will restrain and search you for weapons and then call the police.

since it is legal for me to have the power to restrain your liberty[for violating my rights] since your on my property, i have also the power to search you on my property[ for violating my rights].

however, i am not going to JUST search you [for no reason] just because you entered my property, business or land......that is what sound judgement is.
 
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Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

haymarket said:
The opinion of an individual does not override the document itself. Your so called proof is irrelevant and not applicable.

Article I Section 8 - already cited and produced here by me - clearly gives COngress the power to pass laws for the nation and its people in the areas listed. You ask for proof and there it is - the Constitution itself written by the Founders and adopted and ratified by the states. To pretend otherwise is to deny reality.
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again you put forth false information, stating the founders, intended for the federal government involved in the people life's with collectivism, this is false, because the founders created a Republican form of government, with a senate to block the collective capacity [federalist 63]of the people from federal legislative bills.

you provide no information, but only your words, no proof from the founders, which you cited......if your going to cite the founders, then provide their words, backing up your information......
 
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

ernst barkmann said:
again you put forth false information, stating the founders, intended for the federal government involved in the people life's with collectivism, this is false, because the founders created a Republican form of government, with a senate to block the collective capacity [federalist 63]of the people from federal legislative bills.

you provide no information, but only your words, no proof from the founders, which you cited......if your going to cite the founders, then provide their words, backing up your information......
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From the US Constitution written by the Founders

WE

THE

PEOPLE

did you miss those the first twenty times around? :lamo:roll::lamo
 
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

haymarket said:
From the US Constitution written by the Founders

WE

THE

PEOPLE

did you miss those the first twenty times around? :lamo:roll::lamo
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The true distinction between these and the American governments, lies in the total exclusion of the people, in their collective capacity, from any share in the latter, and NOT in the total exclusion of the representatives of the people<------------[we the people] from the administration of the former.
 
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

ernst barkmann said:
The true distinction between these and the American governments, lies in the total exclusion of the people, in their collective capacity, from any share in the latter, and NOT in the total exclusion of the representatives of the people<------------[we the people] from the administration of the former.
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My bachelors is in Political Science. I taught Government for 33 years. I wrote legislation for the State of Michigan for three years.

That ridiculous nonsense gobbledygook from Wonderland is inane gibberish which has no real meaning.
 
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

haymarket said:
My bachelors is in Political Science. I taught Government for 33 years. I wrote legislation for the State of Michigan for three years.

That ridiculous nonsense gobbledygook from Wonderland is inane gibberish which has no real meaning.
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DUDE NOT MAKING THINGS UP.....YOU WROTE NOTHING, IF YOU HAD YOU WOULD HAVE MENTIONED IT DAY ONE... I ARGUED WITH YOU.

MADISON ON FEDERALIST 63

in American government there is a total exclusion of the people, in their collective capacity, from legislative law making because of the senate in state hands, ...BUT the people are not excluded in their collective capacity when it comes to voting for representatives of the people.
 
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

ernst barkmann said:
DUDE NOT MAKING THINGS UP.....YOU WROTE NOTHING, IF YOU HAD YOU WOULD HAVE MENTIONED IT DAY ONE... I ARGUED WITH YOU.

MADISON ON FEDERALIST 63

in American government there is a total exclusion of the people, in their collective capacity, from legislative law making because of the senate in state hands, ...BUT the people are not excluded in their collective capacity when it comes to voting for representatives of the people.
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Madison has been worm food for nearly two centuries now. His opinion means nothing next to the Constitution and those who have the responsibility to interpret it.

News bulletin from the early 20th century Herr Barkmann (and that is a century ago which is hardly breaking news for 99.999% of us) : the people elect both the House and the Senate and those who serve are indeed from and part of the PEOPLE. Even those who run your precious states are the people elected by the people. That is about as collective as it gets.
 
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

haymarket said:
Madison has been worm food for nearly two centuries now. His opinion means nothing next to the Constitution and those who have the responsibility to interpret it.

News bulletin from the early 20th century Herr Barkmann (and that is a century ago which is hardly breaking news for 99.999% of us) : the people elect both the House and the Senate and those who serve are indeed from and part of the PEOPLE. Even those who run your precious states are the people elected by the people. That is about as collective as it gets.
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worm food?...........thank you for the deflection, from my statement and your downfall!
 
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

ernst barkmann said:
worm food?...........thank you for the deflection, from my statement and your downfall!
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It is revealing that you attempted focus on the witty quip followed by your own retort while selectively hoping that you opting to ignore the facts which prove your statements about the nature of the American government wrong would not go unnoticed.

You lost.
 
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

haymarket said:
It is revealing that you attempted focus on the witty quip followed by your own retort while selectively hoping that you opting to ignore the facts which prove your statements about the nature of the American government wrong would not go unnoticed.

You lost.
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anytime you need to know something about constitutional law........i am here for you....;)
 
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

ernst barkmann said:
anytime you need to know something about constitutional law........i am here for you....;)
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AHA! Another attempt at a retort in a shabby attempt to deflect from your complete inability impotence to reply to the substance of my post showing you that you are wrong speaks volumes.

But lets get past that silly stuff on your part and look again at my statement which shows you are simply wrong about the involvement of the American people in their government:

News bulletin from the early 20th century Herr Barkmann (and that is a century ago which is hardly breaking news for 99.999% of us) : the people elect both the House and the Senate and those who serve are indeed from and part of the PEOPLE. Even those who run your precious states are the people elected by the people. That is about as collective as it gets.




There it is for you Herr Barkmann. Constitutional proof that you have no idea how the American government really works beyond the personal musings of a long dead individual who has been rendered irrelevant by history and time.
 
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

haymarket said:
aha! Another attempt at a retort in a shabby attempt to deflect from your complete inability impotence to reply to the substance of my post showing you that you are wrong speaks volumes.

But lets get past that silly stuff on your part and look again at my statement which shows you are simply wrong about the involvement of the american people in their government:

news bulletin from the early 20th century herr barkmann (and that is a century ago which is hardly breaking news for 99.999% of us) : The people elect both the house and the senate and those who serve are indeed from and part of the people. Even those who run your precious states are the people elected by the people. That is about as collective as it gets.




there it is for you herr barkmann. Constitutional proof that you have no idea how the american government really works beyond the personal musings of a long dead individual who has been rendered irrelevant by history and time.
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i am here for you hay, don't be afraid, don't be afraid, truth always rules in the end, and i will continue to help you discover constitutional law.
 
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

ernst barkmann said:
i am here for you hay, don't be afraid, don't be afraid, truth always rules in the end, and i will continue to help you discover constitutional law.
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So how far away are you from the full self induced delusional state now that you have resorted to repeating the same mantra trying to shut out the inconvenient truth that threatens to shout down the voice of Madison in your head?

Why are you impotent to speak to this which proves you wrong about America, its people and their role in their government? Here it is again for you


news bulletin from the early 20th century herr barkmann (and that is a century ago which is hardly breaking news for 99.999% of us) : The people elect both the house and the senate and those who serve are indeed from and part of the people. Even those who run your precious states are the people elected by the people. That is about as collective as it gets.
 
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

ernst barkmann said:
let me put it into context, using sound judgement.

if a person enters my business which would be my property, and he violates my rights by stealing my property, i have the power to restrain that person [ his liberty ],..... since my business would be more then likely be located in a populated area since i seek to do commerce with people, i would restrain and call the police.

if you come onto my land, house, and i believe you threaten me, or that property, i will restrain and search you for weapons and then call the police.

since it is legal for me to have the power to restrain your liberty[for violating my rights] since your on my property, i have also the power to search you on my property[ for violating my rights].

however, i am not going to JUST search you [for no reason] just because you entered my property, business or land......that is what sound judgement is.
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Then you and I are in agreement then. You had failed to include the qualifier before of my violating your rights on your property, hence our initial disagreement. The only other thing I would correct is your final line as "...i cannot legally just search you [for no reason] just because you enetered..."
 
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

haymarket said:
So how far away are you from the full self induced delusional state now that you have resorted to repeating the same mantra trying to shut out the inconvenient truth that threatens to shout down the voice of Madison in your head?

Why are you impotent to speak to this which proves you wrong about America, its people and their role in their government? Here it is again for you


news bulletin from the early 20th century herr barkmann (and that is a century ago which is hardly breaking news for 99.999% of us) : The people elect both the house and the senate and those who serve are indeed from and part of the people. Even those who run your precious states are the people elected by the people. That is about as collective as it gets.
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another failure of yours, for not reading Madison's writings.

Madison -The true distinction between these and the American governments, lies in the total exclusion of the people, in their collective capacity, from any share in the latter, and not in the total exclusion of the representatives of the people from the administration of the former.

Madison states the people vote collectivity....however in the federal government they don't make laws, collectedly, because the republican structure of government prevents it.
 
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

ernst barkmann said:
another failure of yours, for not reading Madison's writings.

Madison -The true distinction between these and the American governments, lies in the total exclusion of the people, in their collective capacity, from any share in the latter, and not in the total exclusion of the representatives of the people from the administration of the former.

Madison states the people vote collectivity....however in the federal government they don't make laws, collectedly, because the republican structure of government prevents it.
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A distinction without a difference as the people are integral in the elections of our representatives and thus in the passage of laws and our government. Again, reality has rendered your obsession with the long dead Madison irrelevant.
 
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

haymarket said:
A distinction without a difference as the people are integral in the elections of our representatives and thus in the passage of laws and our government. Again, reality has rendered your obsession with the long dead Madison irrelevant.
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people elect representatives collectedly, even Madison states that, ...but tell me how did collectivist pass legislation thru a senate, which was not in the hands of the people, pre 17th...since you stated before the founders had collectivist ideas for our constitution?
 
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