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Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights? [W:85]

Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

  • Total voters
    62
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

Peter Grimm said:
1.)I applied for college 10 years ago so maybe it has changed, but at that time it said right on the college application form that they were looking for a diverse student body so underrepresented minorities and women would be favored in the admissions process. Maybe that has changed.

2.)As for my employer, I have no reason to bite the hand that feeds. However, it is a mandate from our board of directors to hire a certain quota of female managers.

3.)If that's illegal, that's the first I've ever heard of it.
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1.) actually yes that case was in 2003 or so i thing and before that they used to get away with criminal activity much more
2.) well thats your choice and yours alone but know they are breaking the law and NOT practicing AA/EEO

I get the hand that fees you thing and thats how MANY people feel its not until somebody gets burnt that they report the crime or like you they dont even know the law protects them

3.) yes it is if it can be proven. Memo from from the board? email from a manager/HR. etc
 
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

ernst barkmann said:
the OP states rights are protected by anti-discrimination laws.

well someone please state a list of rights, please provide something of a defined list.

because i know of no laws created by the government which grant a citizen any rights.
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The OP states a lot of things that don't make sense.

The poll is poor, it only makes sense if you agree that you have a right to make a business give you custom or a right to be employed somewhere.

If you don't agree with that premise in the first place, then you can't vote on it without ignoring part of the question ("that protect our rights?").

If you DO agree with the premise, that these things ARE rights, then logically you would have to vote yes, as governments are supposed to protect rights, and they do this with laws.
 
Kal'Stang said:
1.)The rest of your arguement is based upon this.
2.)So, lets focus on it. What Rights exactly are we talking about here?
3.) Well...Affirmative Action Laws are all about discrimination. So...is there a Right to not be discriminated against? This doesn't seem to be possible.
4.) People discriminate every single day.
5.)Would I get in trouble if I had no black friends? No Gay friends? Of course not.
6.) As we both agreed earlier that is a rediculous notion.
7.) So obviously there is no right to not be discriminated against.
8.) Do we have a right to association? Yep, we surely do.
9.) We constantly discriminate in the process. Indeed there isn't a single person that doesn't discriminate to some degree or another while exercising this right.
10.)Which is evidence in itself that there is definitely no right to not be discriminated against.
11.)So....if there is no right to not be discriminated against...and there is a right to association...that would mean that AA laws are actually violating peoples rights. Not protecting any rights. Because there are no rights to not be discriminated against.
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1.) OK
2.) civil rights
3.) yes according to law but its only the discrimination that the law defines like civil rights
4.) true but it has to be illegal discrimination. People have sex everyday to, some of it is a crime some of it is a felony
5.) again this has nothing to do withh AA/EEO or civil rights or illegal discrimination. Your right to associate is preserved because it doesnt infringe on rights
6.) yes your example is because it doesnt apply
7.) false as i already pointed out and this isnt my opinion this is what the law and rights set up. Im only going by what they say.

now we could disagree with them but they still make it currently true

8.) yes and this is why you dont have to have a black "friend" lol

9.) yes LEGAL discrimination just like legal sex or legal labor we provide etc

you cant use blanket statments

driving CAN be illegal
killing CAN be illegal
sex CAN be illegal

but because theres cases where its not that doesn't make it always true

i have the right to walk freely in public but i cant walk over you cause you are in my way and claim, "HEY you infringed on my freedom and liberty to walk" simple doesnt work that way

10.) now you know this has been debunked and facts, laws and rights prove otherwise
11.) see above this already doesnt line up

aa/eeo protects rights that already been proven, we cant magically erase laws and rights
 
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

JayDubya said:
The OP states a lot of things that don't make sense.

The poll is poor, it only makes sense if you agree that you have a right to make a business give you custom or a right to be employed somewhere.

If you don't agree with that premise in the first place, then you can't vote on it without ignoring part of the question ("that protect our rights?").

If you DO agree with the premise, that these things ARE rights, then logically you would have to vote yes, as governments are supposed to protect rights, and they do this with laws.
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the poll is based off of facts you cant change this
if you disagree simply try, you will fail and fact, laws and rights will win based on their verbiage ad the fact the exist.
disagree? then post the fats that make it wrong, id love to read them
 
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

AGENT J said:
1.) actually yes that case was in 2003 or so i thing and before that they used to get away with criminal activity much more
2.) well thats your choice and yours alone but know they are breaking the law and NOT practicing AA/EEO

I get the hand that fees you thing and thats how MANY people feel its not until somebody gets burnt that they report the crime or like you they dont even know the law protects them

3.) yes it is if it can be proven. Memo from from the board? email from a manager/HR. etc
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Well cool I learned something today. Thanks.
 
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

JayDubya said:
The OP states a lot of things that don't make sense.

The poll is poor, it only makes sense if you agree that you have a right to make a business give you custom or a right to be employed somewhere.

If you don't agree with that premise in the first place, then you can't vote on it without ignoring part of the question ("that protect our rights?").

If you DO agree with the premise, that these things ARE rights, then logically you would have to vote yes, as governments are supposed to protect rights, and they do this with laws.
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government is here to secure rights of the people recognized by the constitution.

government does dispense privileges ......concerning government.

what government is doing with anti-discrimination laws is saying"....."we government are granting you privileges on other people's property"

of coarse anyone who believes in constitutional law knows, no citizen has a exercisable right on another persons property.......government is just creating privledges, where they have no authority to do so.
 
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

Peter Grimm said:
Well cool I learned something today. Thanks.
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you're welcome

I would imagine thats a very tough thing, knowing they are breaking the law
 
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

AGENT J said:
you're welcome

I would imagine thats a very tough thing, knowing they are breaking the law
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I kind of see the point of what they're doing, though. I'm in a very male-dominated industry (oil and mining), the board wants to diversify. I think they mean well honestly.
 
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

Peter Grimm said:
I kind of see the point of what they're doing, though. I'm in a very male-dominated industry (oil and mining), the board wants to diversify. I think they mean well honestly.
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and this is the dilemma that people go through that happens everywhere and makes it so tough when people break the law

on on hand it seems like they are tryign to do the right thing, but it the hand stopped feeding you, you might" change that opinion or your buddy who just had a baby abd got a new truck


OR

maybe it allows them to hire your Daugter, wife, niece etc and now you are sorta ok with it again or even think its great


this is what the reality is

what your company is doing if factually not AA/EEO but like you said at this time you feel they mean well :shrug: what to do?
 
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

AGENT J said:
nope its factual see post 164

AA/EEO covers ALL of us
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Actually, White isn't a protected class, neither is Asian under many circumstances.

Factual statement; functionally not everyone has seen the same "benefit" from these "non-discrimination" laws. You merely dismiss the reality for the pleasure of theory because of the actual implementation.
 
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

Ikari said:
1.)Actually, White isn't a protected class, neither is Asian under many circumstances.
2.)Factual statement; functionally not everyone has seen the same "benefit" from these "non-discrimination" laws.
3.) You merely dismiss the reality for the pleasure of theory because of the actual implementation.
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1.)you have a factual example of when race isnt protected under AA/EO? intriguing plese present it
2.) correct because that "benefit" has to come in the form of discrimination first.

say for example only women were discriminated against then women would receive all the "benefit" cant change that fact and intellectual honesty

currently white males benefit more than anybody

3.) nope im sticking to facts as i just proved and you are trying to create a straw man based on false negatives and they just got proved wrong.

you statement is true "functionally not everyone has seen the same "benefit" from these "non-discrimination" laws" and NOT a negative

and the fact remains AA/EEO protects us all from discrimination
 
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

shrubnose said:
I absolutely support non-discrimination laws which protect every human being's right to be treated fairly.

Anyone who thinks (Wishes, hopes, dreams.) that the haters will ever win in the USA will be disappointed.

Anyone who is opposed to equal rights for all will be disappointed, because the majority of Americans are opposed to hate-based ideas.

Don't take my word for this, just wait and see.
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I agree with everything you wrote except for your conclusion. Why do we need non-discrimination laws when the haters will be reduced to the dustbin of history anyway.
I would hope that you understand that there is a political advantage in being one of the favored groups in equal opportunity laws. For example, white people are normally all lumped together despite the long historic discrimination against whites from Germany, Ireland, Italy, Greece, Russia, Roma, etc. People from these backgrounds would be laughed out of the room since there are so many whites in the organization. I suspect that Nigerians, "native" African-Americans, and assorted others "blacks" get lumped in together despite differing historical prejudices. Hawaiians are probably treated differently than Fijians or Samoans yet it is hard to prove when the organization already has several pacific islanders of the Hawaiian variety.
Not sure how you can legislate this stuff without empowering some over others and creating a new set of grievances.
 
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

AGENT J said:
will someone please look up the court cases and what they were based on when somebody was discriminated against for say . . . . race?
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Please provide a court case. I will enjoy ripping it apart for the nonsense it is.
 
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

So this is still another poll asking people if they support gay rights, correct?
 
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

Eric7216 said:
I agree with everything you wrote except for your conclusion. Why do we need non-discrimination laws when the haters will be reduced to the dustbin of history anyway.
I would hope that you understand that there is a political advantage in being one of the favored groups in equal opportunity laws. For example, white people are normally all lumped together despite the long historic discrimination against whites from Germany, Ireland, Italy, Greece, Russia, Roma, etc. People from these backgrounds would be laughed out of the room since there are so many whites in the organization. I suspect that Nigerians, "native" African-Americans, and assorted others "blacks" get lumped in together despite differing historical prejudices. Hawaiians are probably treated differently than Fijians or Samoans yet it is hard to prove when the organization already has several pacific islanders of the Hawaiian variety.
Not sure how you can legislate this stuff without empowering some over others and creating a new set of grievances.
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It's actually pretty simple-Non-discrimination laws have to be written so that they don't cause new problems.




"Tolerance is giving to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself." ~ Robert Green Ingersoll
 
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

joko104 said:
So this is still another poll asking people if they support gay rights, correct?
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Wrong.

The headline on this poll Asks : Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights.

I interpret that as meaning everyone's rights (Gay or straight.) since it doesn't mention Gay people.

What made you think that this thread was about gay people? fill us in.




"Tolerance is giving to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself." ~ Robert Green Ingersoll
 
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

shrubnose said:
I interpret that as meaning everyone's rights (Gay or straight.) since it doesn't mention Gay people.
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Wouldn't that be everyone's rights except for the rights of the property owners to manage their business, their property, and their labor and their right to free association unmandated by the government?



>>>>
 
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

discrimination laws, are not written for criminal acts, or health and safety acts which could threaten the population, or property...which is the only reason state governments should make laws on the people......federal government, no authority in any way.

discrimination laws are created by government, to force people to obey in a moral fashion towards other people in the business world,............... and towards governments to make (them) treat everyone equal.

when government applies discrimination laws on the people, its unconstitutional, because the government has no moral authority to force a citizen to serve another citizen, because they deemed it so..

every citizen has (1)right to property and (2) right to association.......these are rights per the constitution, and government cannot take them away from you because you enter into the business world.

by discrimination laws, government is forcing people to associate with people they may not choose to do so if these laws were not created....government is also controlling a citizens property.

government is setting itself up as a moral legislative authority and telling people how to behave, when though a citizen's behavior does not violate anyone's rights [crimes], or endanger the health and safety or property of anyone[regulations].

government has no moral authority because it is composed of people, and those government officials have no authority to impose their social values on .......free citizens who have those 2 rights.
 
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Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

ernst barkmann said:
discrimination laws, are not written for criminal acts, or health and safety acts which could threaten the population, or property...which is the only reason state governments should make laws on the people......federal government, no authority in any way.

discrimination laws are created by government, to force people to obey in a moral fashion towards other people in the business world,............... and towards governments to make (them) treat everyone equal.

when government applies discrimination laws on the people, its unconstitutional, because the government has no moral authority to force a citizen to serve another citizen, because they deemed it so..

every citizen has (1)right to property and (2) right to association.......these are rights per the constitution, and government cannot take them away from you because you enter into the business world.

by discrimination laws, government is forcing people to associate with people they may not choose to do so if these laws were not created....government is also controlling a citizens property.

government is setting itself up as a moral legislative authority and telling people how to behave, when though a citizen's behavior does not violate anyone's rights [crimes], or endanger the health and safety or property of anyone[regulations].

government has no moral authority because it is composed of people, and those government officials have no authority to impose their social values on .......free citizens who have those 2 rights.
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So Her Barkmann, you want the ability to discriminate against anyone for any reason even if those reasons are bigoted and prejudiced? Is that correct?
 
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

shrubnose said:
It's actually pretty simple-Non-discrimination laws have to be written so that they don't cause new problems.




"Tolerance is giving to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself." ~ Robert Green Ingersoll
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I don't think that is simple. You would probably give yourself the right to hire who you want, often based on hard to explain feelings about the person. You trust yourself to not discriminate. But every decision about another person is based on your discriminating tastes. Height, weight, geographic region, college, type of humor, whatever
 
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

Eric7216 said:
I don't think that is simple.
You would probably give yourself the right to hire who you want, often based on hard to explain feelings about the person.
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You trust yourself to not discriminate. But every decision about another person is based on your discriminating tastes. Height, weight, geographic region, college, type of humor, whatever
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Who gets hired isn't a problem, it's who doesn't get hired that causes problems.
 
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

AGENT J said:
1.)you have a factual example of when race isnt protected under AA/EO? intriguing plese present it
2.) correct because that "benefit" has to come in the form of discrimination first.

say for example only women were discriminated against then women would receive all the "benefit" cant change that fact and intellectual honesty

currently white males benefit more than anybody

3.) nope im sticking to facts as i just proved and you are trying to create a straw man based on false negatives and they just got proved wrong.

you statement is true "functionally not everyone has seen the same "benefit" from these "non-discrimination" laws" and NOT a negative

and the fact remains AA/EEO protects us all from discrimination
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In fact the exercise of some of these "non-discriminatory" laws infringe upon the rights of others.
 
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

Henrin said:
Please provide a court case. I will enjoy ripping it apart for the nonsense it is.
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its cute that you think your opinion trumps law, rights, facts and the 100s of court cases.
It doesnt lol
 
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

joko104 said:
So this is still another poll asking people if they support gay rights, correct?
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no in the OP it specifically says its about the current and national ones and im looking for polls on general rights but the recent examples seem to involve ENDA
 
Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

Ikari said:
In fact the exercise of some of these "non-discriminatory" laws infringe upon the rights of others.
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good move moving the goal post back pedalling and reframing lol

by opinio/philosophy not by law

if you come running at me with a knife saying your gonna kill me and and i shoot you I infringed on your rights too:shrug:
meaningless
 
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