View Poll Results: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

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Thread: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights? [W:85]

  1. #451
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    Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    people elect representatives collectedly, even Madison states that, ...but tell me how did collectivist pass legislation thru a senate, which was not in the hands of the people, pre 17th...since you stated before the founders had collectivist ideas for our constitution?
    Are you contending that the Senate somehow negates the other sections of the Constitution that I have already cited which are clearly collectivist in nature?

    And are you then forgetting how the Senate got their jobs in the first place and the important role of the people in that chain of political representation?

    And do you compound those shortsighted beliefs even further by forgetting your previous concession that even before your hated 17th was passed many states had already changed their method of election of Senators?
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    Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Are you contending that the Senate somehow negates the other sections of the Constitution that I have already cited which are clearly collectivist in nature?

    And are you then forgetting how the Senate got their jobs in the first place and the important role of the people in that chain of political representation?

    And do you compound those shortsighted beliefs even further by forgetting your previous concession that even before your hated 17th was passed many states had already changed their method of election of Senators?
    constitutional laws for you......i told you i am here for you.

    under republican form of government ,power is dived between the states and the people, if the house which is directly elected by the people, and collective by its nature, send a bill which is collective to the senate, ...which pre 17th was not in the hands of the people, but instead the states, the states are going to reject it because it is not in their interest.

    their duty is to protect state powers as will as the union, and provide a check and balance of the constitution.

    which is why federalist 63 titled" the senate", explains the senate why it is created, and as legislative block to stop the collective capacity of the people.

    since they created a republican form of government and not a democracy, this proves, they reject collectivism by our federal government which you claimed they created, and ...i am proving you wrong

  3. #453
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    Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    constitutional laws for you......i told you i am here for you.

    under republican form of government ,power is dived between the states and the people, if the house which is directly elected by the people, and collective by its nature, send a bill which is collective to the senate, ...which pre 17th was not in the hands of the people, but instead the states, the states are going to reject it because it is not in their interest.

    their duty is to protect state powers as will as the union, and provide a check and balance of the constitution.

    which is why federalist 63 titled" the senate", explains the senate why it is created, and as legislative block to stop the collective capacity of the people.

    since they created a republican form of government and not a democracy, this proves, they reject collectivism by our federal government which you claimed they created, and ...i am proving you wrong
    none of which speaks to one thing I have said to refute you since we still have a republican form of government.

    Screw Madison and screw his opinions. They are no longer relevant - if indeed they ever were the day after the purpose of ratification was achieved.
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    Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    none of which speaks to one thing I have said to refute you since we still have a republican form of government.

    Screw Madison and screw his opinions. They are no longer relevant - if indeed they ever were the day after the purpose of ratification was achieved.
    as explained to you many times, the 17th changed the structure of the federal government and turn the senate into a democracy, like the house, making them both collective now.

    and allowed collectivism, faction/special interest to grow and take over our government, government to expand and violate the constitution.

    thanks for the Madison comment.....shows denial.

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    Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    as explained to you many times, the 17th changed the structure of the federal government and turn the senate into a democracy, like the house, making them both collective now.

    and allowed collectivism, faction/special interest to grow and take over our government, government to expand and violate the constitution.

    thanks for the Madison comment.....shows denial.
    You do not even know the difference between a democracy and a republic. This explains everything.
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    Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

    I support using Socialism to bailout Capitalism by reducing red tape regarding employment at will.

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    Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You do not even know the difference between a democracy and a republic. This explains everything.
    you make me sad.

    after teaching you for so long about government, ,you show utter failure and get an F.

    review for you!

    a republic can be a democracy, ......France is a democratic socialist Republic, it is a democracy!

    the u.s. of the founders is a Republic, it was NOT created with a democratic form of government but instead with a republican form of government - federalist 10

    a republican form of government is a MIXED government-- federalist 40

    a mixed government is a form of government that employs three different types of government in its creation and based on the Roman republic, which creates a separations of powers, between those three types.

    Mixed government, also known as a mixed constitution, is a form of government that integrates elements of democracy, aristocracy, and monarchy. In a mixed government, some issues (often defined in a constitution) are decided by the majority of the people, some other issues by few, and some other issues by a single person (also often defined in a constitution). The idea is commonly treated as an antecedent of separation of powers.

    in American government of the founders, the house is the democracy,...this senate is the aristocracy, the presidency is the monarchy, these are based on how they are elected.

    the house is a democracy because the people elected the house by a direct vote of the people.

    the senate is an aristocracy because it is directly elected by the legislatures of the states.

    the president is a monarchy because he is elected by delegates of the electoral college made up of the union.

    the republican form of government of the founders, employs ONLY a single element of a democracy.


    when the 17th amendment came into being, it changed the senate which was an aristocracy of being elected by the legislatures of the states, over to direct election by the people as the house is ............making it a democracy.

    this turned the congress as a whole into a democracy now................. employing now 2 elements of democracy in our government..........moving America closer to that vile form of democratic government, which is always at war with individual rights of the people

  8. #458
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    Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    you make me sad.

    after teaching you for so long about government, ,you show utter failure and get an F.

    review for you!

    a republic can be a democracy, ......France is a democratic socialist Republic, it is a democracy!

    the u.s. of the founders is a Republic, it was NOT created with a democratic form of government but instead with a republican form of government - federalist 10

    a republican form of government is a MIXED government-- federalist 40

    a mixed government is a form of government that employs three different types of government in its creation and based on the Roman republic, which creates a separations of powers, between those three types.

    Mixed government, also known as a mixed constitution, is a form of government that integrates elements of democracy, aristocracy, and monarchy. In a mixed government, some issues (often defined in a constitution) are decided by the majority of the people, some other issues by few, and some other issues by a single person (also often defined in a constitution). The idea is commonly treated as an antecedent of separation of powers.

    in American government of the founders, the house is the democracy,...this senate is the aristocracy, the presidency is the monarchy, these are based on how they are elected.

    the house is a democracy because the people elected the house by a direct vote of the people.

    the senate is an aristocracy because it is directly elected by the legislatures of the states.

    the president is a monarchy because he is elected by delegates of the electoral college made up of the union.

    the republican form of government of the founders, employs ONLY a single element of a democracy.


    when the 17th amendment came into being, it changed the senate which was an aristocracy of being elected by the legislatures of the states, over to direct election by the people as the house is ............making it a democracy.

    this turned the congress as a whole into a democracy now................. employing now 2 elements of democracy in our government..........moving America closer to that vile form of democratic government.
    One cannot help but notice that your entire post was attacks and pompous pontifications of what you believe. it is supported by no verifiable source of evidence for your statements about a republic or a democracy.

    THE USA is a republic since the people elect others who run the government in their name and pass laws for them.

    Republic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    A republic is a form of government in which power is held by the people and representatives they elect,[1] and affairs of state are a "public matter" (from Latin: res publica), rather than privately accommodated (such as through inheritance or divine mandate). In modern times the definition of a republic is also commonly limited to a government which excludes a monarch.[2][1] Currently, 135 of the world's 206 sovereign states use the word "republic" as part of their official names.
    Both modern and ancient republics vary widely in their ideology and composition
    The USA is a Republic with a republican form of government. Your personal opinion of the 17th Amendment is irrelevant and did not change that reality. Yes, it moved the election of the Senate from the State legislatures to a vote of the citizenry. But the basic element of a republic form of government - the people represented by others - is still in effect and was not fundamentally changed by the 17th.
    Last edited by haymarket; 02-18-14 at 10:29 AM.
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    Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    One cannot help but notice that your entire post was attacks and pompous pontifications of what you believe. it is supported by no verifiable source of evidence for your statements about a republic or a democracy.
    really?


    u.s. constitution article 4 section 4--The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened), against domestic Violence.

    federalist 10--The other point of difference is, the greater number of citizens and extent of territory which may be brought within the compass of republican than of democratic government; and it is this circumstance principally which renders factious combinations less to be dreaded in the former than in the latter.

    federalist 40-THE second point to be examined is, whether the [constututional]convention were authorized to frame and propose this mixed Constitution

  10. #460
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    Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    really?


    u.s. constitution article 4 section 4--The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened), against domestic Violence.

    federalist 10--The other point of difference is, the greater number of citizens and extent of territory which may be brought within the compass of republican than of democratic government; and it is this circumstance principally which renders factious combinations less to be dreaded in the former than in the latter.

    federalist 40-THE second point to be examined is, whether the [constututional]convention were authorized to frame and propose this mixed Constitution
    And we have a republican form of government. We can change the Constitution - as we did with the 17th - but still have a republican form of government.

    Republic | Define Republic at Dictionary.com

    re·pub·lic [ri-puhb-lik] Show IPA
    noun
    1.
    a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by representatives chosen directly or indirectly by them.
    This verifiable evidence speaks directly to the issue and renders your complain about the 17th to the trash heap. It matters not if the representatives are chosen directly or indirectly.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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