View Poll Results: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

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  • Yes

    42 61.76%
  • No

    12 17.65%
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Thread: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights? [W:85]

  1. #431
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    Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Herr Barkmann
    What is your verifiable proof that Congress cannot pass laws for the American people?
    cannot pass laws?

    nothing prevents that because we don't have true republican government anymore, however citing it to you again..... first : from the father of the u.s. constitution.

    federalist 45
    The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government, are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects[, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected.

    The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State.

    life's of the American people, are not external!...they are internal, and power of the states


    second: what powers of the congress, in article 1 section 8, have anything to do with the personal lifes of the people......i have asked this question already, and you will not answer it.


    again.... you cited the founders believed in collectivism, and that the powers of congress can be involved in the life's of the people.......YET!....you provide no proof from the founders...........but INSTEAD turn to the courts......to give you cover, for your incorrect statements.
    Last edited by Master PO; 02-17-14 at 12:34 AM.

  2. #432
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    Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    cannot pass laws?

    nothing prevents that because we don't have true republican government anymore, however citing it to you again..... first : from the father of the u.s. constitution.

    federalist 45
    The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government, are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects[, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected.

    The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State.

    life's of the American people, are not external!...they are internal, and power of the states


    second: what powers of the congress, in article 1 section 8, have anything to do with the personal lifes of the people......i have asked this question already, and you will not answer it.


    again.... you cited the founders believed in collectivism, and that the powers of congress can be involved in the life's of the people.......YET!....you provide no proof from the founders...........but INSTEAD turn to the courts......to give you cover, for your incorrect statements.
    The opinion of an individual does not override the document itself. Your so called proof is irrelevant and not applicable.

    Article I Section 8 - already cited and produced here by me - clearly gives COngress the power to pass laws for the nation and its people in the areas listed. You ask for proof and there it is - the Constitution itself written by the Founders and adopted and ratified by the states. To pretend otherwise is to deny reality.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  3. #433
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    Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    i don't see it that way, if i beat you or do something physical i can agree,............. however if you violate my rights on my property, your rights in my [opinion] do apply, expect for the right to life.

    i don't see how you can assert rights of your own, after you just violated mine.
    I'm sure you meant do not there. However, you seem to be changing the goal posts. At what point did the hypothetical situation become one of me on your property without permission? We may have been working from different sides of the issue here. I will agree that if I violated your rights by entering on to your property without permission (and setting aside the common practice of entering onto a property to seek help or make an inquiry without seeking prior permission) then any rights I have are suspended including the right to life depending on the situation. However, you have not at any point noted the specific of my being on your property without permission. Here is the original statement I responded to:
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    come on to my property and you can be searched by me, but anyone using sound judgement, better be sure the reason they do a search, not just to exercise that power.

    Now if someone would steal from you, property from your .. ie......store, naturally you would call the law.

    But if you on my land, house i can use my power to search you.
    There is also this statement:
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    I agree, I would not search you for no reason, unless your present I felt was a threat to me, or my property.
    Neither indicates a lack of permission to be on the property, although with the context of post 407, which I did not have before, I can see it somewhat in the later statement. Simply being on your property does not give you permission to violate my right to be secure in my person, unless and until I violate your rights.
    Bi, Poly, Switch. I'm not indecisive, I'm greedy!

  4. #434
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    Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    I'm sure you meant do not there. However, you seem to be changing the goal posts. At what point did the hypothetical situation become one of me on your property without permission? We may have been working from different sides of the issue here. I will agree that if I violated your rights by entering on to your property without permission (and setting aside the common practice of entering onto a property to seek help or make an inquiry without seeking prior permission) then any rights I have are suspended including the right to life depending on the situation. However, you have not at any point noted the specific of my being on your property without permission. Here is the original statement I responded to:


    There is also this statement:


    Neither indicates a lack of permission to be on the property, although with the context of post 407, which I did not have before, I can see it somewhat in the later statement. Simply being on your property does not give you permission to violate my right to be secure in my person, unless and until I violate your rights.
    let me put it into context, using sound judgement.

    if a person enters my business which would be my property, and he violates my rights by stealing my property, i have the power to restrain that person [ his liberty ],..... since my business would be more then likely be located in a populated area since i seek to do commerce with people, i would restrain and call the police.

    if you come onto my land, house, and i believe you threaten me, or that property, i will restrain and search you for weapons and then call the police.

    since it is legal for me to have the power to restrain your liberty[for violating my rights] since your on my property, i have also the power to search you on my property[ for violating my rights].

    however, i am not going to JUST search you [for no reason] just because you entered my property, business or land......that is what sound judgement is.
    Last edited by Master PO; 02-17-14 at 05:47 PM.

  5. #435
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    Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    The opinion of an individual does not override the document itself. Your so called proof is irrelevant and not applicable.

    Article I Section 8 - already cited and produced here by me - clearly gives COngress the power to pass laws for the nation and its people in the areas listed. You ask for proof and there it is - the Constitution itself written by the Founders and adopted and ratified by the states. To pretend otherwise is to deny reality.
    again you put forth false information, stating the founders, intended for the federal government involved in the people life's with collectivism, this is false, because the founders created a Republican form of government, with a senate to block the collective capacity [federalist 63]of the people from federal legislative bills.

    you provide no information, but only your words, no proof from the founders, which you cited......if your going to cite the founders, then provide their words, backing up your information......

  6. #436
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    Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    again you put forth false information, stating the founders, intended for the federal government involved in the people life's with collectivism, this is false, because the founders created a Republican form of government, with a senate to block the collective capacity [federalist 63]of the people from federal legislative bills.

    you provide no information, but only your words, no proof from the founders, which you cited......if your going to cite the founders, then provide their words, backing up your information......
    From the US Constitution written by the Founders

    WE

    THE

    PEOPLE


    did you miss those the first twenty times around?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    From the US Constitution written by the Founders

    WE

    THE

    PEOPLE


    did you miss those the first twenty times around?
    The true distinction between these and the American governments, lies in the total exclusion of the people, in their collective capacity, from any share in the latter, and NOT in the total exclusion of the representatives of the people<------------[we the people] from the administration of the former.

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    Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    The true distinction between these and the American governments, lies in the total exclusion of the people, in their collective capacity, from any share in the latter, and NOT in the total exclusion of the representatives of the people<------------[we the people] from the administration of the former.
    My bachelors is in Political Science. I taught Government for 33 years. I wrote legislation for the State of Michigan for three years.

    That ridiculous nonsense gobbledygook from Wonderland is inane gibberish which has no real meaning.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    My bachelors is in Political Science. I taught Government for 33 years. I wrote legislation for the State of Michigan for three years.

    That ridiculous nonsense gobbledygook from Wonderland is inane gibberish which has no real meaning.
    DUDE NOT MAKING THINGS UP.....YOU WROTE NOTHING, IF YOU HAD YOU WOULD HAVE MENTIONED IT DAY ONE... I ARGUED WITH YOU.

    MADISON ON FEDERALIST 63

    in American government there is a total exclusion of the people, in their collective capacity, from legislative law making because of the senate in state hands, ...BUT the people are not excluded in their collective capacity when it comes to voting for representatives of the people.

  10. #440
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    Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    DUDE NOT MAKING THINGS UP.....YOU WROTE NOTHING, IF YOU HAD YOU WOULD HAVE MENTIONED IT DAY ONE... I ARGUED WITH YOU.

    MADISON ON FEDERALIST 63

    in American government there is a total exclusion of the people, in their collective capacity, from legislative law making because of the senate in state hands, ...BUT the people are not excluded in their collective capacity when it comes to voting for representatives of the people.
    Madison has been worm food for nearly two centuries now. His opinion means nothing next to the Constitution and those who have the responsibility to interpret it.

    News bulletin from the early 20th century Herr Barkmann (and that is a century ago which is hardly breaking news for 99.999% of us) : the people elect both the House and the Senate and those who serve are indeed from and part of the PEOPLE. Even those who run your precious states are the people elected by the people. That is about as collective as it gets.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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