View Poll Results: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

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    42 61.76%
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    12 17.65%
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Thread: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights? [W:85]

  1. #401
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    Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    One does not have to tolerate something that is legal. Protest occur all the time to combat an action by an organization that people dislike but is legal. There are protests all the time outside one of our local porn shops. There has been another set of protests against a "My Doc's In" clinic locally due to some issue that people have but that is perfectly legal. Sufficent negative outcomes, including but not limited to protests and refusing to conduct business, are ways to bring pressure to individuals or businesses to stop the undesired practices without violation of their property rights, or freedom of association.
    In this context, by "tolerate" I mean "willingly accept the legal existence of." You may disapprove and protest discriminatory businesses, but if you support changing the law to allow them to exist, you are tolerating their legal existence. Your actions will make them more likely to exist.

    Similarly, since I oppose virtually all censorship I accept the legal existence of content that I consider reprehensible. It would be true that I tolerate bad content, even though I might be against it and protest the message.

    I tolerate bad content because the likely harm from censorship is greater than the potential harm from the content. With business discrimination, the harm from the conduct is greater than the harm from the laws against it. In fact, most businesses benefitted from the end of legal discrimination.
    Last edited by Hard Truth; 02-15-14 at 10:23 PM.

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    Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    In this context, by "tolerate" I mean "willingly accept the legal existence of." You may disapprove and protest discriminatory businesses, but if you support changing the law to allow them to exist, you are tolerating their legal existence. Your actions will make them more likely to exist.

    Similarly, since I oppose virtually all censorship I accept the legal existence of content that I consider reprehensible. It would be true that I tolerate bad content, even though I might be against it and protest the message.

    I tolerate bad content because the likely harm from censorship is greater than the potential harm from the content. With business discrimination, the harm from the conduct is greater than the harm from the laws against it. In fact, most businesses benefitted from the end of legal discrimination.
    I understand where businesses have benefited from the termination of Jim Crow laws, since they forced discrimination against the choice of the individual. However, I fail to see anti-discrimination (i.e. forced to allow, as opposed to being able to choice either direction) benefits business. While I see it as neutral to the ability of a business to do business, it still runs counter to property rights and freedom of association.
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    Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    You need to provide case law for that. Like I said, if you had a sign in a conspicuous place that said "entry onto this property constitute consent to be physically searched" or to that effect, then you have a right because I voluntarily entered onto your property with the sign in plain sight. My failure to bother to read it would be irrelevant. But to search me or my personal property simply because I am on your land is a violation of my person and a form of assault. Any attempt that you made would be legal grounds for me to defend myself.
    I agree, I would not search you for no reason, unless your present I felt was a threat to me, or my property.

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    Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    wrong, the FATHER of the Constitution, states clearly:

    federalist 45--The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government, are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected.

    The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State.


    the federal government has no authority in the life's liberty and property of the people, so you claim of a balance of individual and society by federal controls is ........wrong!
    It does not matter what one person said. The document produced by 55 people representing the people of the States is what counts - not the personal musings of one long dead person.
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    Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    I agree, I would not search you for no reason, unless your present I felt was a threat to me, or my property.
    Understand that you can be justified in your search and still violate my rights. Likewise despite my right to be secure in my person while on your property, you could still physically get away with violating my rights. At this point though, we are discussing the rights themselves

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    It does not matter what one person said. The document produced by 55 people representing the people of the States is what counts - not the personal musings of one long dead person.
    That was written after the constitution was written and was not simply the personal musings, but an exposition on what the collective thought processes of the writers were at that time.
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    Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    Understand that you can be justified in your search and still violate my rights. Likewise despite my right to be secure in my person while on your property, you could still physically get away with violating my rights. At this point though, we are discussing the rights themselves



    That was written after the constitution was written and was not simply the personal musings, but an exposition on what the collective thought processes of the writers were at that time.
    The writings of an individual - regardless of their intent or purpose or high aspirations - pale in comparison to the actual document of the US Constitution. Madison was one person. No more and no less.

    The Constitution was the product of 55 men with the sum being far more than even the total of its individual parts - Madison being one of those parts.
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    Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    Understand that you can be justified in your search and still violate my rights. Likewise despite my right to be secure in my person while on your property, you could still physically get away with violating my rights. At this point though, we are discussing the rights themselves.
    i don't see it that way, if i beat you or do something physical i can agree,............. however if you violate my rights on my property, your rights in my [opinion] do apply, expect for the right to life.

    i don't see how you can assert rights of your own, after you just violated mine.

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    Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    It does not matter what one person said. The document produced by 55 people representing the people of the States is what counts - not the personal musings of one long dead person.
    yes it does matter, becuase the states in ratifitying the constution did not turn over there powers, to the federal government concerning the people.

    the only powers which were turned over were those in article 1 section 8, and NOTHING, NOTHING , in the us..constitution gives the federal government authority over the people.....NOTHING.

  9. #409
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    Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    yes it does matter, becuase the states in ratifitying the constution did not turn over there powers, to the federal government concerning the people.

    the only powers which were turned over were those in article 1 section 8, and NOTHING, NOTHING , in the us..constitution gives the federal government authority over the people.....NOTHING.
    if the states powers are numourus and infinite, how can anyone be certain that none of the states powers overlap with the federal powers?
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    Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    if the states powers are numourus and infinite, how can anyone be certain that none of the states powers overlap with the federal powers?
    that is what the supremacy clause is for... the founders knew their may be an overlap.

    federal is supreme when they do .

    HOWEVER......federal powers are enumerated by the Constitution DEFINING THEM

    federalist 45-- The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government, are few and defined

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