View Poll Results: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

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Thread: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights? [W:85]

  1. #161
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    Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Yeah how's that?
    because you belong most if not all of those those groups unless you are an alien
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    Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    because you belong most if not all of those those groups unless you are an alien
    Well that can't be argued with however I still don't see how any of these laws benefit me at all. Not that I'm that selfish, I mean fair is fair and I want everyone to have an equal shot but in my honest opinion I think some of these laws favor minority groups, be that minorities of age, race, sexual preference, or whatever, and they leave the majority to foot the tab.

    I feel like a lot of young white men probably do.... I'm working twice as hard to pay for other people to get handouts. Not seeing what's in it for me.

  3. #163
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    Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    because you belong most if not all of those those groups unless you are an alien
    Yes, but functionally only select portions of those combinations really receive benefit of law. Others saw not functional change in access, some are now forced to to use their private property in ways they may not have wished. So it really does depend on the combination of those things as to whether or not you "received" benefit. That's just intellectual honesty right there.
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  4. #164
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    Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    1.)Well that can't be argued with however I still don't see how any of these laws benefit me at all.
    2.)Not that I'm that selfish, I mean fair is fair and I want everyone to have an equal shot but in my honest opinion I think some of these laws favor minority groups, be that minorities of age, race, sexual preference, or whatever, and they leave the majority to foot the tab.
    3.)I feel like a lot of young white men probably do.... I'm working twice as hard to pay for other people to get handouts. Not seeing what's in it for me.
    1.) easy they protect your rights and help hinder illegal discrimination against you
    2.) by definition thats impossible and would factually negate the definition, also studies will als tell you a different picture.
    if a law is broken it protects you just like everybody else.

    the problem is a couple things, people break the law and dont get caught, people break the law and like you many arent even aware the law covers them

    want an example?
    Federal jury awards St. Louis officer $620,000 in racial discrimination suit : News

    A white police sergeant who is president of the St. Louis Police Officers Association was awarded $620,000 in a racial discrimination suit Wednesday.

    A federal jury made the award to Sgt. David Bonenberger, who had sued in January 2012. The civil suit alleged that he was passed over for a leadership post at the city Police Academy. It claimed that academy director, Lt. Michael Muxo, told Bonenberger he shouldn’t bother to apply for the assistant director opening. Muxo told him that the job was going to a black woman, the suit said.Muxo told Bonenberger that a higher-up, Lt. Col. Reggie Harris, wanted a black woman and wanted to “bring color down to the academy,” according to the suit.
    Bonenberger applied but was not called for an interview.

    laws were clearly broken and AA/EEO won, equal rights won

    Debunking the 'Affirmative-Action Myth' - DiversityInc
    Who Benefits From Affirmative Action?

    Virtually everyone has benefited. EEO/AA has actually benefited white men more than any other group. This may come as a surprise to those who have only focused on the “surface issues,” which are hyped by the press and politicians. The reality is that both overtly and under the surface, EEO/AA rules have led to the hiring and upward mobility of millions of white men
    3.) i dont know what your getting at here, this has nothgin to do with anti-discrimination laws, i hate the idea of people "abusing" the system too
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    Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Yes, but functionally only select portions of those combinations really receive benefit of law. Others saw not functional change in access, some are now forced to to use their private property in ways they may not have wished. So it really does depend on the combination of those things as to whether or not you "received" benefit. That's just intellectual honesty right there.
    nope its factual see post 164

    AA/EEO covers ALL of us
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  6. #166
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    Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights? [W:85]

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.)AA law? you mean affirmative action and equal opportunity? why?
    2.) correct
    3.) yes the do
    4.) but in ways it factually does, law and rights make it that way
    A: nobody forces you to own and run business, B: there are rules and laws and regulations for public access business that we ALL MUST follow nobody get special treatment. C: If you choose to break the law and infringe on people rights thats a choice you can make but its your choice and breaking the law has consequences.

    D: if one cant be civil and play by the same rules we all do and respect the rights of others like we all have to the solution is simple, dont play open a business or run a business out your house or online or like the majoruty of people do simply hide your discimranti and do it legally

    5.) of course not thats retarded and nothing like anti-discrimination laws

    6.) you factually are NOT forced to hire anybody
    7.) 100% correct thats why you arent forced to hire anybody
    8.) well IMO thats silly because AA laws dont do what you are talking about. Polls and studies that AA/EEO made things better

    the problem is people breaking the law not AA/EEO

    theres bad judges and police officers that dont follow the law should we get rid of them? no of course not

    also just for the record the people that dont follow the law and practice something else besides AA/EEO they are despicable and part of the problem but again thats them not the law
    1: Already told you why.
    2: Glad we agree.
    3: Glad we agree.
    4: A: Nobody forces a person to apply for a job at a buisness either. Particularly a buisness that they know is going to have a rule which conflicts with their beliefs. Such as wearing a skirt when the buisness requires slacks.
    B: Aren't we discussing those laws? Didn't you ask if we support those laws? Why state this? Just because it is the law does not mean that it is a good law....or supportable.
    C: If it is just about protecting peoples rights then why are there not laws that protect peoples rights to carry a gun...even inside those businesses? Would you support such a law? Why does the business owner get to discriminate against one right but not another? Why is there not a law protecting peoples right to association?
    D: I agree. People should be polite and not interfere with other peoples rights. But refusing to hire someone due to thier skin color, religion, sexuality etc etc does not interefere with those peoples rights. People have the right to associate...they do not have the right to a job.
    5: Glad you basically said "no". I feel the same.
    6: Actually yes...you are factually forced to hire someone if they are a part of those protected classes. All that a person has to do is prove that you didn't hire them due to that protected status. If a person were to not hire any blacks but instead hired only whites do you really think that a judge is not going to look at that? IE quotas. If you don't have a protected class working for you then you had dang well better hire some or someone will come along and claim discrimination. That's where the force comes in. Yeah, you don't have to hire specific people. But you had dang well better hire someone from a protected class....or else.
    7: Think due to your parsing here you missed the point. Try addressing it in full context. IE that sentence was a part of the explanation from number 6.
    8: Really? Then why is there so much inter-racial hatred in today's society?
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  7. #167
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    Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    100% factually false
    Lets look at this...

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    age
    He's young...not old. Age discrimination only comes into affect when you're old.

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    sexual orientation (not covered everywhere yet)
    Don't think this applies to him.

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    Race
    Only affects minority races. IE any race that does not have dominate numbers in this country. Since white is the dominate race in this country he is not protected and as such has no benefit to AA.

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    Gender
    I've yet to see anyone receive any benefit from AA laws for being male. Can you name me one case where a man sued for not being hired because he was male? And won?
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    Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) easy they protect your rights and help hinder illegal discrimination against you
    2.) by definition thats impossible and would factually negate the definition, also studies will als tell you a different picture.
    if a law is broken it protects you just like everybody else.

    the problem is a couple things, people break the law and dont get caught, people break the law and like you many arent even aware the law covers them

    want an example?
    Federal jury awards St. Louis officer $620,000 in racial discrimination suit : News



    laws were clearly broken and AA/EEO won, equal rights won

    Debunking the 'Affirmative-Action Myth' - DiversityInc


    3.) i dont know what your getting at here, this has nothgin to do with anti-discrimination laws, i hate the idea of people "abusing" the system too
    I see where you're coming from.

    Like most opinions that I have, I base them off of personal experience. Sometimes that experience is limited, I'll be the first to admit. The first thing that popped in to my head was college admissions. Not sure why it did, but it did.

    Anyway, say you're a young white or asian man who wants to go to school to be an engineer. If there's a woman who has the same or slightly worse grades as you, she will be admitted ahead of you because they don't have enough female engineering students. If there's an african american with the same or slightly worse grades as you, he/she will be admitted ahead of you because they don't have enough black engineering students.

    So here I am, getting the shaft in that situation. The short end of the stick. See every time you make a law to prop someone else up, it knocks someone else out. Like with college admissions, that should just go to the most qualified applicant period, who cares what gender or race they belong to. That to me seems fair.

    Workplace is no different. We have a mandate to hire a certain number of female managers. Doesn't matter if they're qualified, just need to meet a quota.

    That's dumb.

  9. #169
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    Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights? [W:85]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    4: A: Nobody forces a person to apply for a job at a business either. Particularly a business that they know is going to have a rule which conflicts with their beliefs. Such as wearing a skirt when the buisness requires slacks.
    B: Aren't we discussing those laws? Didn't you ask if we support those laws? Why state this? Just because it is the law does not mean that it is a good law....or supportable.
    C: If it is just about protecting peoples rights then why are there not laws that protect peoples rights to carry a gun...even inside those businesses? Would you support such a law? Why does the business owner get to discriminate against one right but not another? Why is there not a law protecting peoples right to association?
    D: I agree. People should be polite and not interfere with other peoples rights. But refusing to hire someone due to thier skin color, religion, sexuality etc etc does not interefere with those peoples rights. People have the right to associate...they do not have the right to a job.
    5: Glad you basically said "no". I feel the same.
    6: Actually yes...you are factually forced to hire someone if they are a part of those protected classes.
    6A.)All that a person has to do is prove that you didn't hire them due to that protected status.
    6B.) If a person were to not hire any blacks but instead hired only whites do you really think that a judge is not going to look at that?
    6C.) IE quotas.
    6D.) If you don't have a protected class working for you then you had dang well better hire some or someone will come along and claim discrimination.
    6E.) That's where the force comes in. Yeah, you don't have to hire specific people. But you had dang well better hire someone from a protected class....or else.
    7: Think due to your parsing here you missed the point. Try addressing it in full context. IE that sentence was a part of the explanation from number 6.
    8: Really? Then why is there so much inter-racial hatred in today's society?
    4A.) correct doesnt change anything
    4B.) then you are allowed to say you think its a bad law nobody is stopping you but it is the law and it is currently the rights. you can fight to change it but i doubt it would ever work.
    4C.) there are but they get violated and we let them get changed and people vote them away. We need to fight for them. My CWP should be vailied in every stat like a drivers licences IMO and every state shoudl be open carry according to the constitution IMO but im not sure how that changes anything

    as far as carrying a gun, thats not protected under civil laws onto property and a gun in this case isnt like race, gender etc
    in many cases laws conflict and we have decided which ones win.

    would "I" support a law like that? for public access business IMO yes i would unless my business was like wall to wall nitrous tanks of something or an extra threat then i would hope other regulations took care that lol

    and there factually is a law protecting your right to accurate, like i said early at times rights collide or take a back seat under conditions. I have the right to swing my fist all i want but if it hits you things change right? this is no different

    4D.) but it does, rights and laws make it that way and it certainly isnt civil. association takes a back seat because now it infringes on ones right to not be illegally discrimination against. Not right to a job thats just made up.
    5.) of course because what you described has nothing to do with this topic
    6.) no you are not forced to hire anybody, you are not allowed to illegally discriminate HUGE difference.
    6A.) correct and if you didnt break the law you are good
    6b.) not any judges the is following the laws
    6C.) quotas are illegal
    6D.) uhm we ALL have them working for us
    6E.) false if you are following the law you are fine
    7.) you were right i got cared away with cutting it up
    8.) same reason there alway has been . . . . ignorance
    same reason there always will be

    and there is much much much less now than in the past

    only thing goin on right now if the information age and the first black president, gay rights and political division is high

    so this cause the large bigots and extra squeaky wheels to be even louder and cry harder because of their fear

    but in reality the NORMAL people are less racist them they ever been.

    approval of interracial marriage is like 85% in 1967 than many were against it
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  10. #170
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    Re: Do you support non-discrimination laws that protect our rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Lets look at this...

    1.)He's young...not old. Age discrimination only comes into affect when you're old.
    2.)Don't think this applies to him.
    3.)Only affects minority races. IE any race that does not have dominate numbers in this country. Since white is the dominate race in this country he is not protected and as such has no benefit to AA.
    4.)I've yet to see anyone receive any benefit from AA laws for being male. Can you name me one case where a man sued for not being hired because he was male? And won?
    1.) 100% false
    2.) 100% false he has a sexual orientation just like you it applies
    3.) 100% false again already posted links and an article proving this factually wrong
    4.) yep ill have to look for it but didnt a guy force his way into a hooters type establishment last year or in 2012 based on AA/EO LOL it was great

    also the links again prove this wrong

    this is exactly the problem i pointed out people are uneducated about what the law actually and factually does


    we all have an age, race, religion or lack of one and gender. the laws factually apply to us
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