View Poll Results: Your opinion on old people in the USA

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  • The growing number of seniors is a major economic challenge

    15 51.72%
  • We all owe old people and they should get what they want

    3 10.34%
  • I'm over 65 and I paid my dues, now its my right to collect

    2 6.90%
  • Most old people suck

    1 3.45%
  • We should respect our elders and they are the wisest

    9 31.03%
  • Social security should be changed to be on a needs basis

    10 34.48%
  • The legal retirement age for government benefits should be raised

    8 27.59%
  • Old people are better people, it's young people who suck

    8 27.59%
  • They're right, we need lots more restrictions and laws

    0 0%
  • Old people made the most wonderful country in the world

    7 24.14%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

  1. #51
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    Re: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Which sort of personal savings do you think would work? Not the stock market, it can fluctuate too much and that isn't what retirement accounts to which should be subject. A home? by the time you finish paying for it, you have bought it 2 or three times over give or take a few interest points and years on the note. depending on inflation it is most likely a push and you'd need to buy a new place to live.

    I don't know why you think SS will not be there for you, true some on the extreme right are doing their best to keep reform from stabilizing the program, but the problem is not unlike the egg passing through a snake. The Baby Boomer generation came about by a very rare occurrence, the end of WWII with millions of service men coming home- unlike Germany, England and the USSR. Like gas, once the Baby Boomers pass through the system a far more normal pattern will be set in place.
    Post #47.

    You assume that SS will survive the baby boomer rush.

    To address your first point, you're wrong. Stocks are an excellent place to put your money (including mutual funds, ETFs, etc.). Your savings account interest rate is usually somewhere around .1 to .3 % return these days depending on how much you have in it and who it's with. CDs are around 1 to 3% depending on the year (and that is for 7 year investment that you can't touch). Bonds which are low return but stable. Stocks and their derivative products historically return about 7-8% on average. Last year alone saw 30%+ returns. So over time, stocks are the best choice. The saying goes, poor and low middle class invest in savings accounts and CDs, high middle class and rich invest in stocks...and there's a reason why they do. If you're not invested in stocks in some way, you are shooting yourself and your retirement in the foot.

    Home...generally it's not a super awesome investment (unless there's a bubble). You're right there. However, the alternative is that you rent and get nothing out of it, so I would rather own a home. I bought at the bottom of the market when interest rates were 3.25%. It happened to be an awesome investment for me, but you're right that it is market dependent.

  2. #52
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    Re: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

    I think that the Gov't, under all administrations, has mismanaged the Social Security funds. They've borrowed the funds and not actually paid them back, except with an I.O.U. There is most certainly abuse of the system by some persons, but it is minimal compared to management incompetence and criminality.

  3. #53
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    Re: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by SBu View Post
    Post #47.

    You assume that SS will survive the baby boomer rush. To address your first point, you're wrong. Stocks are an excellent place to put your money (including mutual funds, ETFs, etc.). Your savings account interest rate is usually somewhere around .1 to .3 % return these days depending on how much you have in it and who it's with. CDs are around 1 to 3% depending on the year (and that is for 7 year investment that you can't touch). Bonds which are low return but stable. Stocks and their derivative products historically return about 7-8% on average. Last year alone saw 30%+ returns. So over time, stocks are the best choice. The saying goes, poor and low middle class invest in savings accounts and CDs, high middle class and rich invest in stocks...and there's a reason why they do. If you're not invested in stocks in some way, you are shooting yourself and your retirement in the foot. Home...generally it's not a super awesome investment (unless there's a bubble). You're right there. However, the alternative is that you rent and get nothing out of it, so I would rather own a home. I bought at the bottom of the market when interest rates were 3.25%. It happened to be an awesome investment for me, but you're right that it is market dependent.
    Oh 'they' have known about the Boomer Bubble for years and some who hate SS have been trying to force the end of SS by trying to ramp up the crisis. Fact is SS can be saved and is worth being saved, all CON rants to the contrary.

    Stocks have not been stable, last year's 'return' is after a massive crash- imagine if you were already retired and you lost 75% of your retirement income because of the 2008 crash?

    Stocks return hinges on the rate of inflation, a booming market accompanied by inflation, a very 'traditional' occurrence.

    CDs and savings accounts are not even close to keeping up with inflation.

    As far as homes go, for the long term- 30 to 40 years it doesn't matter what quirky happenstance you hit to get a 'bottom of the market' home. After decades inflation will even everyone out. Now home ownership is better than renting, but it isn't a retirement maker.

  4. #54
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    Re: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Oh 'they' have known about the Boomer Bubble for years and some who hate SS have been trying to force the end of SS by trying to ramp up the crisis. Fact is SS can be saved and is worth being saved, all CON rants to the contrary.

    Stocks have not been stable, last year's 'return' is after a massive crash- imagine if you were already retired and you lost 75% of your retirement income because of the 2008 crash?

    Stocks return hinges on the rate of inflation, a booming market accompanied by inflation, a very 'traditional' occurrence.

    CDs and savings accounts are not even close to keeping up with inflation.

    As far as homes go, for the long term- 30 to 40 years it doesn't matter what quirky happenstance you hit to get a 'bottom of the market' home. After decades inflation will even everyone out. Now home ownership is better than renting, but it isn't a retirement maker.
    If being worth saving means that it is significantly scaled back in scope and expectation now, then ok. If being worth saving means that we have to significantly raise taxes on my generation (and other non-boomer generations) to pay for it, no thanks. Right now, I would prefer that the government tells the truth to my generation, which is: 'This program will probably not be available to you either totally or as it exists today, so start saving and investing your butts off for retirement.' I'm operating under the FACT that it is only projected to last, in its current form, until 2033. Which is to say, I don't trust any BS that politicians, pundits, or armchair quarterbacks tell me, and I don't expect or want access to this ponzi scheme of a program, nor do I want those kids graduating and being born today to pay for my financial well being.

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    Re: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

    Carousel.

  6. #56
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    Re: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Which sort of personal savings do you think would work? Not the stock market, it can fluctuate too much and that isn't what retirement accounts to which should be subject. A home? by the time you finish paying for it, you have bought it 2 or three times over give or take a few interest points and years on the note. depending on inflation it is most likely a push and you'd need to buy a new place to live.

    I don't know why you think SS will not be there for you, true some on the extreme right are doing their best to keep reform from stabilizing the program, but the problem is not unlike the egg passing through a snake. The Baby Boomer generation came about by a very rare occurrence, the end of WWII with millions of service men coming home- unlike Germany, England and the USSR. Like gas, once the Baby Boomers pass through the system a far more normal pattern will be set in place.
    Why would you ever buy a home you couldn't pay off in ten years? Why would you want to be forced into a substandard rate of return the money going into social security?
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  7. #57
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    Re: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by SBu View Post
    If being worth saving means that it is significantly scaled back in scope and expectation now, then ok. If being worth saving means that we have to significantly raise taxes on my generation (and other non-boomer generations) to pay for it, no thanks. Right now, I would prefer that the government tells the truth to my generation, which is: 'This program will probably not be available to you either totally or as it exists today, so start saving and investing your butts off for retirement.' I'm operating under the FACT that it is only projected to last, in its current form, until 2033. Which is to say, I don't trust any BS that politicians, pundits, or armchair quarterbacks tell me, and I don't expect or want access to this ponzi scheme of a program, nor do I want those kids graduating and being born today to pay for my financial well being.
    Actually it is the disability side that is shaky, the SS account side just needs the cap lifted on taxable income, unless you are making over $117,000 in TAXABLE income you will see no difference. A few tweeks in the adjustments...

    The FACT is SS is is still paying out and IF the right wing stops it's silliness the program has many more years ahead of it.

    Again I pointed out savings, stocks, and your home don't do well against inflation and interest paid in a home mortgage. For most middle class Americans the SS program is a true life saver.

  8. #58
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    Re: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

    Fascinating. I never ran across such creative Ageism before.

    I had to laugh at the 'most old people suck' option.

  9. #59
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    Re: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Actually it is the disability side that is shaky, the SS account side just needs the cap lifted on taxable income, unless you are making over $117,000 in TAXABLE income you will see no difference. A few tweeks in the adjustments...
    Oh, that's it? Well there you go, problem solved.

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    The FACT is SS is is still paying out and IF the right wing stops it's silliness the program has many more years ahead of it.
    I never argued that the it's not still paying out. This is not a discussion about near term solvency. That's the problem with short sighted views.

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Again I pointed out savings, stocks, and your home don't do well against inflation and interest paid in a home mortgage. For most middle class Americans the SS program is a true life saver.
    Until it runs out. If SS was significantly less than the monster it is today, then people would save and invest significantly more...like people used to do.

    Personal savings, 1950-2011 | pgpf.org

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    Re: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

    Dear anti-old people people: If the world's lucky...you won't live to be old. In all likelihood, you'll wind up being more of a burden on your families and society than all of the previous generations of "old people". Why? Because you'll never prepare to be old. After all...your the "anti-old people people.

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