View Poll Results: Your opinion on old people in the USA

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  • The growing number of seniors is a major economic challenge

    15 51.72%
  • We all owe old people and they should get what they want

    3 10.34%
  • I'm over 65 and I paid my dues, now its my right to collect

    2 6.90%
  • Most old people suck

    1 3.45%
  • We should respect our elders and they are the wisest

    9 31.03%
  • Social security should be changed to be on a needs basis

    10 34.48%
  • The legal retirement age for government benefits should be raised

    8 27.59%
  • Old people are better people, it's young people who suck

    8 27.59%
  • They're right, we need lots more restrictions and laws

    0 0%
  • Old people made the most wonderful country in the world

    7 24.14%
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Thread: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

  1. #41
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    Re: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by GBFAN View Post
    A strong case can be made for incentivizing people to retire EARLIER - thus opening positions for people to move up, and the young to get employment. The only real question is how you pay for it ..
    It would appear that we, as a society. now prefer to pay folks not to work or to supplement a McJob to the extent that it becomes a McCareer.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  2. #42
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    Re: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by SBu View Post
    Get rid of SS and incentivize personal savings instead of paying into a system we'll never have the benefit of using ourselves. It's really a flawed system to begin with. Not necessarily the fault of 'old people', just the same misguided social welfare BS that people have been blinded by for generations.
    We need to remember WHY we have these programs or what old age was like without them because we are generations away from the horrors of the poor houses. Virtually every Western nation has retirement programs for the elderly because we were appalled by what is was like without them.
    You WILL get you SS benefits by the way.

  3. #43
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    Re: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by SBu View Post
    Which is why children should take care of their parents if they can't take care of themselves at that age. This is the standard in the rest of the world. Of course that would mean maybe they would have to give up cable, 55" tv, 40" rim impala, etc. #firstworldproblems
    I assume they still must give up over 12% of their entire lifetime income to fund SS/Medicare as well
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Well, yes, in a way, you're right Joko. That being said, and I'm not officially old yet, the SS system was in place well before most of us were born, and we had no choice as to whether or not to participate, so as far as I am concerned, I fully expect to get back what I have put in over the (so far) 40 years of my working life, and I still have another 12 years to go, assuming that I live to retirement age. Anyone with half a brain should have realized, even back when it was first instituted, that we would be facing this problem, but our government unfortunately decided that we had to do it anyway, and I see no signs of meaningful changes being instituted. Long term, we're pretty much screwed as a country, as far as economic stability goes.
    If you think you will get back from SS what you put in, you are fooling yourself. It might be possible if you retire for four times the number of years you actually worked and paid SS taxes. Not many (if any) can say the can do that.

  5. #45
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    Re: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodman909 View Post
    If you think you will get back from SS what you put in, you are fooling yourself. It might be possible if you retire for four times the number of years you actually worked and paid SS taxes. Not many (if any) can say the can do that.
    Actually, many people get back far more than they ever paid in.
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  6. #46
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    Re: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

    So, I'm one of those "old people" and I could manage without Social Security if it were removed tomorrow. OTOH, I paid in a lot of money and I don't see why I should refuse the return of my own money.

    My suggestion is that all Seniors be offered a choice of receiving the SS or receiving a refund of their paid in funds. This might reduce the burden somewhat since I'm pretty sure that I would take the cash and so would Mitt Romney. Those who had no resources would still need to receive their checks.









    (I have far less than Mitt does but still....I could manage)

  7. #47
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    Re: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    We need to remember WHY we have these programs or what old age was like without them because we are generations away from the horrors of the poor houses. Virtually every Western nation has retirement programs for the elderly because we were appalled by what is was like without them.
    You WILL get you SS benefits by the way.
    I would like to see you qualify this statement.

    Those funds — a $2.7 trillion buffer built in anticipation of retiring baby boomers — will be exhausted by 2033, the government currently projects.

    Those facts are widely known. What’s not is that the Social Security Administration underestimates how long Americans will live and how much the trust funds will need to pay out — to the tune of $800 billion by 2031, more than the current annual defense budget — and that the trust funds will run out, if nothing is done, two years earlier than the government has predicted.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/06/op...hink.html?_r=0

    That 2033 year correlated by the liberal Huffington Post (though they see this limited solvency as some kind of victory despite it being insolvent long term)

    Fred Lundgren: The Myth of Social Security's Insolvency

    By most accounts, Americans haven't been seeing increasing wages and salaries over the last decade or so.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/13/su...-stagnate.html

    The cost of living will keep going up. Inflation will keep going up (whether controlled or not). All things being equal, we will have smaller paychecks to pull from to pay for SS as the baby boomers are hitting prime retirement age.

    Not to mention, according to the CBO fewer Americans will choose to be full time employed due to Obamacare (not losing their jobs necessarily as this article explains, although GOP pundits like to scream it). So you now have fewer people choosing to work full time which will also put a dent in our ability to pull from paychecks that would otherwise be full time paychecks.

    Moreover, the argument could go, this would hurt the nation’s budget because 2.3 million fewer people will pay taxes on their earnings. That’s certainly an intellectually solid argument — though others might counter that universal health care is worth a reduction in overall employment — but it’s not at all the same as saying that all of these jobs would be lost.
    No, CBO did not say Obamacare will kill 2 million jobs

    All signs point to the baby boomers retiring soon and pushing the SS ponzi scheme over the edge, and at the same time the pool of money to pull from getting smaller or at least stagnant as the cost of living and inflation keep rising (small or large though the rise may be). We are robbing Peter (the young) to pay Paul (the old) and one day the music will stop or we'll have to outright murder Peter to pay Paul (i.e. raise taxes to crushing levels or nationalization of pension funds and other assets to borrow money to pay for the extension of this out of control program).
    Here's an example:
    Poland Confiscates Half Of Private Pension Funds To "Cut" Sovereign Debt Load | Zero Hedge


    Sorry if I don't take your word for it without a little backup.

  8. #48
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    Re: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    I assume they still must give up over 12% of their entire lifetime income to fund SS/Medicare as well
    I would doubt it, but then again, this discussion is fictional in nature. I would much rather Federal government allow us to keep that '12%' to invest or spend as we see fit.

    I do understand that desperate times call for desperate measures, and occasionally we need to invest overwhelmingly in our populace to fend off overwhelmingly dire consequences, but to keep these policies in place long term, expand them, and sell them as an entitlement is a recipe for what we will face in 2033.

  9. #49
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    Re: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodman909 View Post
    If you think you will get back from SS what you put in, you are fooling yourself. It might be possible if you retire for four times the number of years you actually worked and paid SS taxes. Not many (if any) can say the can do that.
    Medicare and Social Security: What you paid compared with what you get | PolitiFact

    Nope.

  10. #50
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    Re: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by SBu View Post
    Get rid of SS and incentivize personal savings instead of paying into a system we'll never have the benefit of using ourselves. It's really a flawed system to begin with. Not necessarily the fault of 'old people', just the same misguided social welfare BS that people have been blinded by for generations.
    Which sort of personal savings do you think would work? Not the stock market, it can fluctuate too much and that isn't what retirement accounts to which should be subject. A home? by the time you finish paying for it, you have bought it 2 or three times over give or take a few interest points and years on the note. depending on inflation it is most likely a push and you'd need to buy a new place to live.

    I don't know why you think SS will not be there for you, true some on the extreme right are doing their best to keep reform from stabilizing the program, but the problem is not unlike the egg passing through a snake. The Baby Boomer generation came about by a very rare occurrence, the end of WWII with millions of service men coming home- unlike Germany, England and the USSR. Like gas, once the Baby Boomers pass through the system a far more normal pattern will be set in place.

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