View Poll Results: Your opinion on old people in the USA

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  • The growing number of seniors is a major economic challenge

    15 51.72%
  • We all owe old people and they should get what they want

    3 10.34%
  • I'm over 65 and I paid my dues, now its my right to collect

    2 6.90%
  • Most old people suck

    1 3.45%
  • We should respect our elders and they are the wisest

    9 31.03%
  • Social security should be changed to be on a needs basis

    10 34.48%
  • The legal retirement age for government benefits should be raised

    8 27.59%
  • Old people are better people, it's young people who suck

    8 27.59%
  • They're right, we need lots more restrictions and laws

    0 0%
  • Old people made the most wonderful country in the world

    7 24.14%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

  1. #31
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    Re: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    It's all about how you frame the argument. It's pretty convenient for people who dictate policies to frame it in such a way to make aging seem like some kind of greed scheme to steal money from their "children". Don't fall for this hype. The truth is if it wasn't for SS, many retirees would have to be cared for by their children. A major problem we face today is real wages for most American workers have lagged productivity for the past 40 years. That has surely effected the amount of money being put aside for this program.
    Snip:
    "It’s difficult to gauge the combined effect of slow wage growth and rising inequality since the two are related—the taxable earnings cap is indexed to average wages. It’s probably fair to say, however, that robust full-employment and pro-worker policies could eliminate half to three-fourths of the shortfall. These calculations don’t take into account other full-employment effects, such as reduced unemployment and disability rates, which are harder to estimate with available information.

    - See more at: Wages and Social Security | Economic Policy Institute
    Oh Lord! Please don't make me pay for my parents that raised me and cared for me! What a disaster!

    That is actually the standard in most of the world. You should be asking yourself if it's moral to outsource monetary care of your aging parents to the federal government and tax payer, rather than taking care of your family yourself. Additionally, you should ask yourself if SS is preferred over personal savings.

  2. #32
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    Re: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by SBu View Post
    Oh Lord! Please don't make me pay for my parents that raised me and cared for me! What a disaster!

    That is actually the standard in most of the world. You should be asking yourself if it's moral to outsource monetary care of your aging parents to the federal government and tax payer, rather than taking care of your family yourself. Additionally, you should ask yourself if SS is preferred over personal savings.

    Um, things like social security become more important when one lives in the age of volatile markets. After our last meltdown, a huge amount of middle class people lost value on such things as property and/or any kind of private investment fund. While those two things are necessary, social security has been the bigger saving grace for people in the US.

    Also, people should pay it forward. Social security makes more sense than on people's working income solely, don't ya think?

  3. #33
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    Re: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

    It is absolutely disgraceful that Liberals award so much American tax money to Democrat voting immigrants that there isn't enough money to take care of our own elderly.

    Then the Mexicans send their American money home to Mexico to take care of their Mexican elderly.

    The enormously corrupt Liberal Obama government has turned away from our own beloved elderly in order to keep themselves in office.
    Last edited by Ray410; 02-05-14 at 03:15 PM.

  4. #34
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    Re: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    I suggest 2 things (actual more but these the most obvious)

    1. To go a means test. Yeah, rich old people will rage. But there is no reason to give social security benefits to millionaires. This would allow more for others who really need it.

    2. "Retirement" USED to basically mean a person was too old to work anymore. The age needs to evolve upward (older). It really doesn't work for a person to pay $150 a month into social security for 40 years and then get $1500 a month plus medical care and the rest for 3 decades. The math doesn't work.

    If a person wants to quit working when 65, they should save money to do so. Social security was never meant to be a pension. Rather an avoidance of abject poverty. The reason it would have to evolve to older ages is too many people came to believe social security is their old age pension fund.

    The reason to evolve it to an older age is because the system can't afford otherwise and most people are still plenty fit to work at 65.
    Really? Perhaps you think that those in the trades can work past 65, but that poses other problems. The raising of the SS "full benefit" age results in ever more folks qualifying for the (even higher) SS disability check instead. For every senior that must continue to work, past the current SS benefit age, that is one less (good?) job available for another US worker. IMHO, we should not raise the SS full benefit age since it is already much higher than the gov't employee full benefit age, instead we should raise the gov't employee retirement age to match that of SS.

    At age 60 I am certainly not able to work as much, as hard or as fast as I could a mere decade ago. I somewhat make up for that by working a bit smarter and recruiting (and training) younger helpers on occasion, but to expect a person of 65 (or older) to be able to stay on a framing, roofing, landscaping or plumbing crew is not really as practical as you make it seem.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  5. #35
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    Re: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    Um, things like social security become more important when one lives in the age of volatile markets.
    In what way? Because you declare it so?

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    After our last meltdown, a huge amount of middle class people lost value on such things as property and/or any kind of private investment fund. While those two things are necessary, social security has been the bigger saving grace for people in the US.
    In three years, property values have mostly bounced back (unless you made an incredibly bad real estate decision), and investments have broken records. Are you telling me that someone that retired didn't have any savings to account for a recession lasting only 2-3 years? That just convinces me more that we shouldn't have such a program if reliance is so great on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    Also, people should pay it forward. Social security makes more sense than on people's working income solely, don't ya think?
    I don't think any insolvent program is better than my savings, investments, or working income. Pay it forward? Seriously?

    You can argue all you want that we must have government dependency, but the numbers simply won't work long term. We see examples of failed socialized states all the time. Any extension of these programs (in their current form), not to mention Expansion is a temporary pipe dream that digs us further in the hole. Sure we party presently, but the music will stop one day, and it will be a complete mess.

    You want to approach me with an idea about a Federal tax to build retirement homes for poor elderly and the disabled, I would probably agree to that. No doubt if THAT was the freebee, you would see dramatic dropout from this program and it would be limited to those who really need it. Unfortunately, most people would have to go back to work because they didn't save a penny...such is life.

  6. #36
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    Re: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Really? Perhaps you think that those in the trades can work past 65, but that poses other problems. The raising of the SS "full benefit" age results in ever more folks qualifying for the (even higher) SS disability check instead. For every senior that must continue to work, past the current SS benefit age, that is one less (good?) job available for another US worker. IMHO, we should not raise the SS full benefit age since it is already much higher than the gov't employee full benefit age, instead we should raise the gov't employee retirement age to match that of SS.

    At age 60 I am certainly not able to work as much, as hard or as fast as I could a mere decade ago. I somewhat make up for that by working a bit smarter and recruiting (and training) younger helpers on occasion, but to expect a person of 65 (or older) to be able to stay on a framing, roofing, landscaping or plumbing crew is not really as practical as you make it seem.
    Which is why children should take care of their parents if they can't take care of themselves at that age. This is the standard in the rest of the world. Of course that would mean maybe they would have to give up cable, 55" tv, 40" rim impala, etc. #firstworldproblems

  7. #37
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    Re: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Hmm. Old people, eh? As in those folks who didn't have the decency to die early enough, and are now an inconvenience. What should be done with them? I have some ideas:

    1) Pass a law that constitutional protections no longer apply to persons 60 and older.
    2) Deny them the right to vote, drive, own property or belong to a political party.
    3) If any of them object, euthanize those suckers with extreme prejudice.
    4) Confiscate their money and property to help pay off the national debt.

    That ought to teach them to die at a reasonable age. Problem solved!
    Soylent green, you think?

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    Re: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Really? Perhaps you think that those in the trades can work past 65, but that poses other problems. The raising of the SS "full benefit" age results in ever more folks qualifying for the (even higher) SS disability check instead. For every senior that must continue to work, past the current SS benefit age, that is one less (good?) job available for another US worker. IMHO, we should not raise the SS full benefit age since it is already much higher than the gov't employee full benefit age, instead we should raise the gov't employee retirement age to match that of SS.

    At age 60 I am certainly not able to work as much, as hard or as fast as I could a mere decade ago. I somewhat make up for that by working a bit smarter and recruiting (and training) younger helpers on occasion, but to expect a person of 65 (or older) to be able to stay on a framing, roofing, landscaping or plumbing crew is not really as practical as you make it seem.
    A strong case can be made for incentivizing people to retire EARLIER - thus opening positions for people to move up, and the young to get employment. The only real question is how you pay for it ..

  9. #39
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    Re: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Hmm. Old people, eh? As in those folks who didn't have the decency to die early enough, and are now an inconvenience. What should be done with them? I have some ideas:

    1) Pass a law that constitutional protections no longer apply to persons 60 and older.
    2) Deny them the right to vote, drive, own property or belong to a political party.
    3) If any of them object, euthanize those suckers with extreme prejudice.
    4) Confiscate their money and property to help pay off the national debt.

    That ought to teach them to die at a reasonable age. Problem solved!
    Who is going to take the place of our grandmothers and grandfathers? Many parents don't have the time or smarts.

  10. #40
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    Re: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by SBu View Post
    In what way? Because you declare it so?



    In three years, property values have mostly bounced back (unless you made an incredibly bad real estate decision), and investments have broken records. Are you telling me that someone that retired didn't have any savings to account for a recession lasting only 2-3 years? That just convinces me more that we shouldn't have such a program if reliance is so great on it.



    I don't think any insolvent program is better than my savings, investments, or working income. Pay it forward? Seriously.
    Will your savings be finite as once you use it, it is gone or will there be a guaranteed payout until your death? So many young people are very shortsighted.

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