View Poll Results: Your opinion on old people in the USA

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  • The growing number of seniors is a major economic challenge

    15 51.72%
  • We all owe old people and they should get what they want

    3 10.34%
  • I'm over 65 and I paid my dues, now its my right to collect

    2 6.90%
  • Most old people suck

    1 3.45%
  • We should respect our elders and they are the wisest

    9 31.03%
  • Social security should be changed to be on a needs basis

    10 34.48%
  • The legal retirement age for government benefits should be raised

    8 27.59%
  • Old people are better people, it's young people who suck

    8 27.59%
  • They're right, we need lots more restrictions and laws

    0 0%
  • Old people made the most wonderful country in the world

    7 24.14%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

  1. #11
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    Re: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    Joko, what is you answer to this "problem"?

    SS is a promise and everyone who earns a paycheck has been paying into it their who working life. Seriously, what would you suggest?

    Do remember, that you will be an old people someday, if you are fortunate enough to live that long. The alternative sucks.
    No. SS is a tax designed to pay to the people currently using it, and only solvent enough to pay for the next 20ish years because of the projected people to be using it beyond. 'SS is a promise'?

    Social Security is funded through payroll taxes called Federal Insurance Contributions Act tax (FICA) and/or Self Employed Contributions Act Tax (SECA). Tax deposits are collected by the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) and are formally entrusted to the Federal Old-Age and Survivors Insurance Trust Fund, the Federal Disability Insurance Trust Fund, the Federal Hospital Insurance Trust Fund, or the Federal Supplementary Medical Insurance Trust Fund which comprise the Social Security Trust Funds.
    Social Security (United States) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  2. #12
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    Re: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Well, yes, in a way, you're right Joko. That being said, and I'm not officially old yet, the SS system was in place well before most of us were born, and we had no choice as to whether or not to participate, so as far as I am concerned, I fully expect to get back what I have put in over the (so far) 40 years of my working life, and I still have another 12 years to go, assuming that I live to retirement age. Anyone with half a brain should have realized, even back when it was first instituted, that we would be facing this problem, but our government unfortunately decided that we had to do it anyway, and I see no signs of meaningful changes being instituted. Long term, we're pretty much screwed as a country, as far as economic stability goes.
    The social security system was created to deal with a very real life-death situation. A person could reach old age and be in poor health - and could literally starve to death or die in the cold. The social security system was to provide a minimal old-age safety net. And at a time when the average life span was age 67. Some would live older, but an equal number wouldn't make 65. That is ALL social security was.

    2 years of average enough-to-survive safety net became 20 years of employment free retirement, plus health care. plus disability, plus surviving spouses plus, plus, plus.

    Here's a number I would like to see someone factor. To figure the average amount a person would have paid into the social security system over 45 years and calculate what that would have earned in treasury note interests (ie savings bonds). How much money would that be now? Versus what does social security now cost on average for everyone gathering social security for one reason or another and other old-age benefits (ie "entitlements").

  3. #13
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    Re: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    Joko, what is you answer to this "problem"?

    SS is a promise and everyone who earns a paycheck has been paying into it their who working life. Seriously, what would you suggest?

    Do remember, that you will be an old people someday, if you are fortunate enough to live that long. The alternative sucks.

    I suggest 2 things (actual more but these the most obvious)

    1. To go a means test. Yeah, rich old people will rage. But there is no reason to give social security benefits to millionaires. This would allow more for others who really need it.

    2. "Retirement" USED to basically mean a person was too old to work anymore. The age needs to evolve upward (older). It really doesn't work for a person to pay $150 a month into social security for 40 years and then get $1500 a month plus medical care and the rest for 3 decades. The math doesn't work.

    If a person wants to quit working when 65, they should save money to do so. Social security was never meant to be a pension. Rather an avoidance of abject poverty. The reason it would have to evolve to older ages is too many people came to believe social security is their old age pension fund.

    The reason to evolve it to an older age is because the system can't afford otherwise and most people are still plenty fit to work at 65.

  4. #14
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    Re: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Hmm. Old people, eh? As in those folks who didn't have the decency to die early enough, and are now an inconvenience. What should be done with them? I have some ideas:

    1) Pass a law that constitutional protections no longer apply to persons 60 and older.
    2) Deny them the right to vote, drive, own property or belong to a political party.
    3) If any of them object, euthanize those suckers with extreme prejudice.
    4) Confiscate their money and property to help pay off the national debt.

    That ought to teach them to die at a reasonable age. Problem solved!
    Not all problems have a solution. Sneering certainly isn't a solution.

    I also am talking about shifting social attitudes and part I think is due to the increasing influence of an aging population and part is due to the extreme post-WWII wealth of the USA - that somehow seems to have lead to 1.) people think they are owed something and 2.) increasing numbers of people who do not have their goal as to advance and achieve, but instead to hunker down and be safe at any costs. The latter are diametrically oppose views of life.

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    Re: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

    I am going to be old someday, but also expect society to be radically different. Mostly, I expect people to be increasingly put into monitored sheeple roles. As I write this, there are drives to put into place systems into cars to track the movement and legality of everyone's actions and facial recognition cameras so it is known where everyone is at all times, plus ever millions more cameras watch with computers doing the monitoring.

    Overall, I expect civil liberties and capitalism on an individual level to continue to decline. The politics will continue to go to the left and government will continue to grow - good or bad however a person sees that.

    I do not expect the US economy to do well and we are in a managed decline now - specifically via inflation which is the only way to spread less wealth around while trying to erase increasing debt. Inflation erases debt.

    As for social security? I do not believe it will exist in its current form. Rather, I expect that everyone regardless of age while have a minimal assured income. At all ages a person will have a means to survive by not working, but everyone of any age will have incentive to try to earn more money if possible. In short, I don't think the current system will continue indefinitely.

    I also expect things such as healthcare to become treadmill, except for the wealthy. If you are ill you get on the treadmill and go thru the system. What you pay will be based upon your income. The healthcare you receive is what is dictated unless you can afford to do otherwise - and most won't be able to.

    With over 50% of the adult population over 65 and of those who aren't, 20% or more work in some government capacity, means they system as it is can not survive no matter how you adjust it.

    The only "hope" lies in technological advances not economic policy and certainly not politics. Not everything has a solution. The SS system as it is now will die - one way or another over the next 2 decades.

    That all assumes there is not some massive economic or social upheaval along the way - which can erase all wealth and cause radical social change.

  6. #16
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    Re: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Not all problems have a solution. Sneering certainly isn't a solution.
    What? In your OP you were bent out of shape because old people were all involved in politics and government, supporting laws you don't like, spending their children's inheritance, and you asked people what they thought about that, ostensibly asking for potential solutions. The solutions I outlined would solve all the things you complained about in the OP. I thought you'd be grateful!

    I also am talking about shifting social attitudes and part I think is due to the increasing influence of an aging population and part is due to the extreme post-WWII wealth of the USA - that somehow seems to have lead to 1.) people think they are owed something and 2.) increasing numbers of people who do not have their goal as to advance and achieve, but instead to hunker down and be safe at any costs. The latter are diametrically oppose views of life.
    OMG, that's awful! People who have money yanked out of their checks for 40 years based upon the promise that they would have certain benefits in their old age actually think they are owed something?? Bwahahaha!!! Old people are so stupid!

    Even worse are those who, after 40+ years of working, no longer have the goal to advance and achieve, but want to hunker down and be safe. The audacity!! Anyone who wants to sit back and enjoy their final years without continuing to advance and achieve have no damned right to be safe! They should be forced by law to take up bungie-jumping or skydiving! That's advancement; that's achievement. And if the cord breaks or the chute doesn't open, then we can confiscate their money and property to help pay off the national debt!

    See, you brought me more problems, I brought you more solutions. You're welcome!

  7. #17
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    Re: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by SBu View Post
    No. SS is a tax designed to pay to the people currently using it, and only solvent enough to pay for the next 20ish years because of the projected people to be using it beyond. 'SS is a promise'?



    Social Security (United States) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Yes, you put your money in and it will be there when you retire. I don't see anything that says it won't be. Of course no one foresaw the baby boom, which is the generation under discussion.
    I don't attack my constituents. Bob is my constituent now.
    This is the important stuff. We can’t get lost in discrimination. We can’t get lost in B.S. We can’t get lost tearing each other down. I want to make a point here that no matter what you look like, where you come from, how you worship, who you love, how you identify, and yeah, how you run, that if you have good public policy ideas, if you are well qualified for office, bring those ideas to the table, because this is your America, too. This is our commonwealth of Virginia, too.
    Danica Roem - The nation's first openly transgender person elected to serve in a U.S. state legislature.

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    Re: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    I suggest 2 things (actual more but these the most obvious)

    1. To go a means test. Yeah, rich old people will rage. But there is no reason to give social security benefits to millionaires. This would allow more for others who really need it.

    2. "Retirement" USED to basically mean a person was too old to work anymore. The age needs to evolve upward (older). It really doesn't work for a person to pay $150 a month into social security for 40 years and then get $1500 a month plus medical care and the rest for 3 decades. The math doesn't work.

    If a person wants to quit working when 65, they should save money to do so. Social security was never meant to be a pension. Rather an avoidance of abject poverty. The reason it would have to evolve to older ages is too many people came to believe social security is their old age pension fund.

    The reason to evolve it to an older age is because the system can't afford otherwise and most people are still plenty fit to work at 65.
    What do you suggest for now, because none of this can be fairly implemented now. Maybe for those under 55, which includes me. I'm not against means testing, though yeah, it's kind of unfair. Maybe just pay them back exactly what they put in?

    But none of this is at the feet of old people. Old people have not ruined our country. The hard work of these people helped to make it prosperous. Point your finger in another direction for where the blame lies for our current economic problems.
    I don't attack my constituents. Bob is my constituent now.
    This is the important stuff. We can’t get lost in discrimination. We can’t get lost in B.S. We can’t get lost tearing each other down. I want to make a point here that no matter what you look like, where you come from, how you worship, who you love, how you identify, and yeah, how you run, that if you have good public policy ideas, if you are well qualified for office, bring those ideas to the table, because this is your America, too. This is our commonwealth of Virginia, too.
    Danica Roem - The nation's first openly transgender person elected to serve in a U.S. state legislature.

  9. #19
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    Re: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

    “The Little Boy and the Old Man

    Said the little boy, "Sometimes I drop my spoon."
    Said the old man, "I do that too."
    The little boy whispered, "I wet my pants."
    I do that too," laughed the little old man.
    Said the little boy, "I often cry."
    The old man nodded, "So do I."
    But worst of all," said the boy, "it seems
    Grown-ups don't pay attention to me."
    And he felt the warmth of a wrinkled old hand.
    I know what you mean," said the little old man.”
    ― Shel Silverstein


    “When we age we shed many skins: ego, arrognace, dominance, self-opionated, unreliable, pessimism, rudeness, selfish, uncaring ... Wow, it's good to be old!”
    ― Stephen Richards


    "في الستين من العمر ، نحن بالكاد بلغنا الثلثين من عمرنا ، لذا ينبغي ألا ندفن أنفسنا ! ينبغي العيش !”
    ― Tahar Ben Jelloun, البلد


    “I Didn't Ask to Be a Senior Citizen (I Was Drafted)”
    ― Doug Jensen, Looking in the Rear View Mirror


    “Old ones should respect the energy of youths and youths should respect the experience of old ones.”
    ― Amit Kalantri
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

  10. #20
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    Re: Are Old People the ruin of this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    Yes, you put your money in and it will be there when you retire. I don't see anything that says it won't be. Of course no one foresaw the baby boom, which is the generation under discussion.
    Still pretty funny. 1. Probably won't be there for my generation 2. People have been discussing the baby boomer effects for the last 20+ years

    As for me, I'm operating under the assumption that I have to count on my own savings and responsibility and not the good will tax of those younger than me. That is what you call personal responsibility. It doesn't even cross my mind that I would rely on social security because responsible people don't rely on others for their own well being.

    It's not a promise. Ideologically, it started out as a safety net, then politicians turned it into a benefit, which became an entitlement, which now has become an ideological 'promise.' Ridiculous. It's the money federal government takes out of my paycheck to pay for a myriad social benefits for others, and that will either totally collapse in the next 20 years or be significantly degraded remnants of its current self.

    It's not just us. A lot of countries are dealing with aging populations and how to pay for them. China, Japan, Europe. It will be the death of socialist leaning liberalism when the younger generations figure out that they are the ones stuck with the bill at the end of this ponzi scheme.

    A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment [social program] operation that pays returns to its investors [baby boomers] from existing capital or new capital paid by new investors [my generation]

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