• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Your opinion on Coke's version of America The Beautiful? [W:1014]

Do You like this version of "America The Beautiful?"

  • Total voters
    104
Dr. Chuckles said:
I'm not sure why you guys want to dismiss the idea of an american culture. Neither the idea of regionalism, or a mixing pot precludes such. With some of the obvious aspects of it being secularism and individualism

Maybe you guys need to travel outside the US more
Click to expand...

I have done more than enough travelling, both within the US and without, to know what I'm talking about. And while no one has said there is no such thing as an american culture (it's just another example of you presenting a straw man) I know enough about it to know that what distinguishes our culture from others is not something that foreigners are incapable or unwilling to take part of.

But since you want to present yourself as some kind of expert on the matter, perhaps you can share what is unique about our culture and explain how Latinos are not taking part in our culture.
 
Gathomas88 said:
Tell me the world wouldn't be a better place right now if someone hadn't shot the likes of Michael Moore and Glen Beck at 10 paces years ago.

Public discourse would certainly be a Hell of a lot more civil. :lol:
Click to expand...

Bull****. You wanna start stuff like that, you'd better go back to the 80s, with Rush Limbaugh. He's the original talk radio hate monger. He's the father of all of this hate and divisiveness.
 
By the way, watching the Opening Ceremonies, they played the Coke commercial again. I have to say it's much more beautiful, and much more touching, at 73" instead of 22" on my monitor. And the surround sound? Makes the languages sound flawless. Great commercial, great message.

Good on ya', Coke.
 
Superfly said:
Bull****. You wanna start stuff like that, you'd better go back to the 80s, with Rush Limbaugh. He's the original talk radio hate monger. He's the father of all of this hate and divisiveness.
Click to expand...

His remarks about the use of violence to settle scores suggest that he's not as in sync with our culture as he seems to think he is. Americans have rejected the use of violence as a means to settle disagreements.
 
Superfly said:
Bull****. You wanna start stuff like that, you'd better go back to the 80s, with Rush Limbaugh. He's the original talk radio hate monger. He's the father of all of this hate and divisiveness.
Click to expand...

That'd be the beauty of it! Anyone who made a big enough ass of themselves would be fair game. :lol:

Pundits would have to be more careful to mind their "Ps and Qs" in general.
 
Last edited:
Superfly said:
By the way, watching the Opening Ceremonies, they played the Coke commercial again. I have to say it's much more beautiful, and much more touching, at 73" instead of 22" on my monitor. And the surround sound? Makes the languages sound flawless. Great commercial, great message.

Good on ya', Coke.
Click to expand...

Pepsi is better anyway, so it doesn't really matter. :mrgreen:
 
PepsiFTW.jpg

:mrgreen:
 
Superfly said:
*shudder* I have not had Pepsi since high school. That's when I started drinking grown-up soda, better known as Coke. :D
Click to expand...

:2razz:

ngbbs4ac5109cc4fbb.jpg
 
Moderator's Warning:
Alright, fun is fun, but get back to the topic, please.
 
Kobie said:
Moore and Beck would never have been able to sell their brand of bull**** if people weren't more than willing to gobble it up. Ultimately, the problem lies with us.
Click to expand...

Not me, I don't watch either of them. :mrgreen:
 
sangha said:
And despite their isolation, they managed to assimilate.
Click to expand...

How does that make sense. isolation would only aid assimulation.

Immigrants today, with just a few minor exceptions, face most of the same pressures to assimilate and throughout american history millions of Latinos have done just that
Click to expand...

1) I outlined how Latinos in this immigrant wave were different and are having a more difficult time assimilating.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls...ica-beautiful-w-1014-a-67.html#post1062885219

2) above you quote an explanation outlining how in one aspect they face less pressures. Another is that the state and society in general is putting less pressure on them to do so
 
sangha said:
I have done more than enough travelling, both within the US and without, to know what I'm talking about.
Click to expand...

Where?

And while no one has said there is no such thing as an american culture
Click to expand...

It has been implied here numerous times already

I know enough about it to know that what distinguishes our culture from others is not something that foreigners are incapable or unwilling to take part of.
Click to expand...

Who said foreigners, in general, were incapable and unwilling? The argument was a subset of immigrants were failing to do so
 
Dr. Chuckles said:
How does that make sense. isolation would only aid assimulation.
Click to expand...

It depends on what they're isolated from. Being isolated from their home country would aid assimilation. Being isolated from our culture, by spending most of their time in an ethnic ghetto, makes assimilation more difficult


1) I outlined how Latinos in this immigrant wave were different and are having a more difficult time assimilating.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls...ica-beautiful-w-1014-a-67.html#post1062885219
Click to expand...

Yes, I remember now. I found it very weak. Having govt forms in their language, etc is not a very compelling reason to not assimilate. The fact remains that even with such things, the pressure to assimilate is overwhelming. Their financial security, among other things, depends on their assimilating. Particularly in a nation where so few speak anything but English.

2) above you quote an explanation outlining how in one aspect they face less pressures. Another is that the state and society in general is putting less pressure on them to do so
Click to expand...

Times change. In some areas, there are less pressures. In others, more pressure. But since you seem to think the pressure has lessened overall, I'd love to hear the evidence you think demonstrates that Latinos are not assimilating and the ways in which they aren't assimilating, particularly with respect to american culture (as opposed to simply learning english)
 
Dr. Chuckles said:
Where?
Click to expand...

All around the US, and overseas but no Asia (with the exception of Thailand when I was younger) or Africa.

It has been implied here numerous times already
Click to expand...

No, what has been argued is that there is no one set of cultural practices that is *the* norm for american culture and that, as a result, there are areas in the US where culture varies greatly.



Who said foreigners, in general, were incapable and unwilling? The argument was a subset of immigrants were failing to do so
Click to expand...

Gath has described many Latinos as unwilling to assimilate.

I noticed you skipped over my question:
But since you want to present yourself as some kind of expert on the matter, perhaps you can share what is unique about our culture and explain how Latinos are not taking part in our culture.
Click to expand...

I think it's only fair that if you're going to argue that (some/many) Latinos are not assimilating to American culture you should, at the very least, identify those cultural practices and values that they are rejecting.
 
sangha said:
It depends on what they're isolated from. Being isolated from their home country would aid assimilation.
Click to expand...

this really makes me wonder if you even read what you respond to: I was quite that the chinese you mentioned were more isolated from their homeland and each other than modern Mexican immigrants.

Having govt forms in their language
Click to expand...

I specifically highlighted their lower education rates, more concentrated numbers, and settling patterns, and failure to economically assimilate compared to past individuals, in addition to measures taken to make the state more accessible to non-english speaker. Not sure why you would ignore all those and try to reduce the later to bilingual forms

I'd love to hear the evidence you think demonstrates that Latinos are not assimilating and the ways in which they aren't assimilating, particularly with respect to american culture (as opposed to simply learning english)
Click to expand...

I already cited data indicating that new populations were failing to integrate compared to past populations. In fact, I even provided the link in the very post you just quoted. But here it is again:


http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls...ica-beautiful-w-1014-a-67.html#post1062885219
 
sangha said:
All around the US, and overseas but no Asia (with the exception of Thailand when I was younger) or Africa.
Click to expand...

Again, where?



No, what has been argued is that there is no one set of cultural practices that is *the* norm for american culture and that, as a result, there are areas in the US where culture varies greatly.
Click to expand...

Regionalized variations in culture exist anywhere. India is a particularly vibrant example, but surely that wouldn't lead anyone to claim that there does not exist an "indian culture"


Gath has described many Latinos as unwilling to assimilate.
Click to expand...

Why do you feel the need to constantly engage in dishonesty? The post I responded to, and what you wrote earlier, was " that foreigners are incapable or unwilling to take part of".
 
Dr. Chuckles said:
this really makes me wonder if you even read what you respond to: I was quite that the chinese you mentioned were more isolated from their homeland and each other than modern Mexican immigrants.
Click to expand...

They were isolated from China, but not from each other. They were living together in either ghettos or work camps.

I specifically highlighted their lower education rates, more concentrated numbers, and settling patterns, and failure to economically assimilate compared to past individuals, in addition to measures taken to make the state more accessible to non-english speaker. Not sure why you would ignore all those and try to reduce the later to bilingual forms
Click to expand...

Because the facts argue against your claims about lower education. As the following shows, Latinos (like other immigrant groups) close the gap in succeeding generations. Your claim was based on stats that were limited to first generation immigrants.

http://www.stanford.edu/group/scspi/_media/pdf/Reference Media/Smith_2003_Immigration.pdf



I already cited data indicating that new populations were failing to integrate compared to past populations. In fact, I even provided the link in the very post you just quoted. But here it is again:


http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls...ica-beautiful-w-1014-a-67.html#post1062885219
Click to expand...

Your link talks only about the first generation. My link shows what happens with succeeding generations.
 
Dr. Chuckles said:
Regionalized variations in culture exist anywhere. India is a particularly vibrant example, but surely that wouldn't lead anyone to claim that there does not exist an "indian culture"
Click to expand...

And again, no one has argued that there is no american culture. What has been argued is that there is no one set of values and practices that is the definition of that - an argument that has been used to portray our culture as having no Latino influence.





Why do you feel the need to constantly engage in dishonesty? The post I responded to, and what you wrote earlier, was " that foreigners are incapable or unwilling to take part of".
Click to expand...

And as I just pointed out, Gath has argued that many Latinos are unwilling to assimilate.
 
sangha said:
They were isolated from China, but not from each other. They were living together in either ghettos or work camps.
Click to expand...

I literally addressed this when the discussion started: Yes, there were isolated communities like china towns. But the china towns were very few. With mexican immigrants we have a wide spread, but still concentrated settling pattern that stems from the mexican border across the South and western parts of the state.

Your link talks only about the first generation. My link shows what happens with succeeding generations.
Click to expand...

Do you even read or think about what you are responding to? Your paper is talking about successive generations from higher educated immigrant groups. Recent immagrant groups, as is outlined in the dat I provided, are less educated now, and they are failing to perform better than past populations, like the parents of the groups your paper is talking about. This means the current group of immigrants will have successive generations that perform below that threshold. Since economic assimilation is directly tied to the education and earning potential of their parents
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom