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Your opinion on Coke's version of America The Beautiful? [W:1014]

Do You like this version of "America The Beautiful?"

  • Total voters
    104
SouthernDemocrat said:
Hispanic birth rates are higher than black birth rates in the United States. Black birth rates are 2.1 kids per black woman which is basically replacement rate, while Hispanic birth rates are 2.4 births per Hispanic woman. If you extrapolate that over 50 years it will indeed lead to a significant difference in population growth rates.

You then have to look at how many young childbearing age Hispanic women there are versus other demographics.

Explaining Why Minority Births Now Outnumber White Births | Pew Social & Demographic Trends

That said, I would imagine that over the coming decades both groups birth rates will fall in line with whites and asians and their population growth rate will slow.
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sangha said:
His beliefs are so bigoted that he can't even recognize the difference between actual #'s like 2.1 and 2.4
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It is irrelevant. The difference between a 2.1 fertility rate and 2.4 fertility rate is not enough to account for the differences in population growth rates we're expecting to see over the course of the next fifty years (a roughly 10% increase for African Americans vs an almost 100% increase for Latinos).

The only possible explanation for that is the influence of immigration.
 
Gee, I wonder how many more times I could have said "Massachusetts" in the post above! :2razz:
 
rocket88 said:
Tell you what. Post a quote where I said you were a racist. Otherwise, you're just blowing hot air.
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I did. It's in the post you responded to and the line you directly quote above was written in response to it





So you're vociferously arguing with me because I implied that people who have that reaction are racist. Since that's not you, what's your problem?
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1) No, I am arguing with you because you are trying to equate two things that are not equal

2) I am taking offense because you accused me of being racist
 
Gathomas88 said:
The fact that they represent an alien cultural influence in the United States is also undeniable. Their presence is forcing Americans to learn Spanish just as it is forcing Latinos immigrants to learn English. No other group of immigrants has had that impact.
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That is absurd and regardless of how diverse your friends are, its rather xenophobic. During the "coolie" system of 1800s, entire areas of cities and towns on the west coast were predominately Cantonese speaking. My step father is of German descent. He was born and grew up in a town in Kansas that was German speaking. There were Scandinavian farming communities in the upper Midwest that predominately spoke Norwegian. With every wave of immigrants over the course of our history, there have always been generational lags in adopting English as their language. This is nothing new.

As to this "alien culture", I am not even sure what that is supposed to be. If you are a southerner and move up north you will bring with you an alien culture. There is no monolithic American culture, we have always been a melting pot where cultures varied greatly between regions and ethnic groups. Why do care anyway? What does it matter?
 
Gathomas88 said:
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It's hardly like they're popping out 5 or 6 children per woman like the Indians were doing thirty years ago here.
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You said that blacks and Latinos have the same birth rate. You were wrong, but not honest enough to admit that you were wrong.

A population simply does not double in less than 50 years on a 2 children per woman fertility rate alone. That is due to contribution made by immigration.
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I see you still can't get the #'s right. It's 2.4, not two and 2.4 fertility rate does get them close to doubling in 50 years


Which is why we conquered those areas, and displaced their local cultures, replacing them with our own.
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Yeah, now there's no Mexican culture in Texas or California! :lamo

The simple fact of the matter is that Latino immigrants are not "culturally American" and never have been. They are alien.
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The only simple thing about that is that it is simply wrong.

I don't speak Italian or German even as a second language, and I don't fly an Irish flag outside of my home.
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This thread is not about you, but it's funny how you're using a personal anecdote after arguing that personal anecdotes are not good arguments.

Try again.



Again, it's our country. It's our culture.

If they're not willing to "play ball," they frankly have no business being here.

Every other immigrant group seems past and present seemed to understand this basic fact well enough. What makes Latinos so special that they need to be deliberately coddled so that they don't "lose their culture?"

I'm sorry, but I really couldn't care less about their culture. When they move to a new country, it should be expected to change.
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Latino culture is a part of American culture. Without it, American culture wouldn't be what it is.

And Latino immigrants have, and will continue, to assimilate.




Believe what you want.

I've got pics, so it most assured did happen. :lol:
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I didn't say that it's not true. I guess you don't realize this but "Some of my best friends are (fill in the blank)" has been a classic line bigots have used to deny their bigotry. In All in the Family, Archie Bunker used to use his "friendship" with Lionel to argue that he wasn't a bigot.
 
ChrisL said:
My point is that in Massachusetts, there is a large segment of the population in Massachusetts that wants to coddle illegal immigrants. This shows in their economic situations, their level of employment (or lack of), and non-English speakers are very common here in Massachusetts.

What's your point?
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My point is that your anecdotes are worthless.
 
Gathomas88 said:
It is irrelevant. The difference between a 2.1 fertility rate and 2.4 fertility rate is not enough to account for the differences in population growth rates we're expecting to see over the course of the next fifty years (a roughly 10% increase for African Americans vs an almost 100% increase for Latinos).

The only possible explanation for that is the influence of immigration.
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Not enough? Over 50 years?

You do realize that 50 times the difference of .3 equals 1.5 and that's without compounding. And that to the 2, and you get 3.5 which means it's almost double the 2.1 rate of blacks, don't you?

Wait. You don't and you think you can lecture about simple math :lamo
 
Dr. Chuckles said:
No, people are having a discussion
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Yes. Those statements aren't mutually exclusive.

Dr. Chuckles said:
I think you are just upset people are discussing things you don't like and want to play thread police
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I'll happily admit I was more interested in discussing the reactions to the advert than rehashing the US/Mexico immigration debate but I've no desire to stop other people chasing that tail if they like, in threads for that purpose.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
That is absurd and regardless of how diverse your friends are, its rather xenophobic. During the "coolie" system of 1800s, entire areas of cities and towns on the west coast were predominately Cantonese speaking. My step father is of German descent. He was born and grew up in a town in Kansas that was German speaking. There were Scandinavian farming communities in the upper Midwest that predominately spoke Norwegian. With every wave of immigrants over the course of our history, there have always been generational lags in adopting English as their language. This is nothing new.
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actually there are a few things different: one is our cultural attitude towards not adopting English is more permissive. Second is less diversity in immigration and lack of cultural and linguistic isolation

As to this "alien culture", I am not even sure what that is supposed to be. If you are a southerner and move up north you will bring with you an alien culture. There is no monolithic American culture, we have always been a melting pot where cultures varied greatly between regions and ethnic groups. Why do care anyway? What does it matter?[/QUOTE]
 
sangha said:
My point is that your anecdotes are worthless.
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It's not an anecdote. Massachusetts is a sanctuary state, with a segment of the population that refuses to encourage immigrants to learn English (among other things). A lot of illegal immigrants live here, and they are basically exempt from the rules and laws.

Romney might well get tough on sanctuary cities in the future, but he didn’t when he was governor. During his tenure, at least four Massachusetts cities enacted or renewed legislation declaring themselves sanctuaries for illegal immigrants. Brookline and Cambridge reaffirmed their longtime status as sanctuary cities in so many words. Somerville and Orleans didn’t officially deem themselves ‘sanctuaries,’ but Somerville affirmed its ‘long-standing policies in support of all immigrants,’ while Orleans forbade city officials from turning in illegal immigrants without probable cause. We asked Romney’s campaign if he had acted against these cities, but they didn’t provide us with any examples. As far as we were able to determine in our own research, Romney made no attempts to penalize, censure, or cut funding to them.
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Dr. Chuckles said:
I did. It's in the post you responded to and the line you directly quote above was written in response to it







1) No, I am arguing with you because you are trying to equate two things that are not equal

2) I am taking offense because you accused me of being racist
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You were taking offense long before I "accused you of being racist" which I didn't do. Fine, "those people" who take offense to this ad would be praising Coke's patriotism if it was all in English. If you are not one of those people, then this really shouldn't be an issue.
 
ChrisL said:
It's not an anecdote. Massachusetts is a sanctuary state, with a segment of the population that refuses to encourage immigrants to learn English (among other things). A lot of illegal immigrants live here, and they are basically exempt from the rules and laws.
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Neither you nor anyone else has posted any evidence that anyone has encourage immigrants to not learn English.

This is just another example of you insisting that fiction is fact, like the way you insisted that immigrants were required to know English.
 
sangha said:
Neither you nor anyone else has posted any evidence that anyone has encourage immigrants to not learn English.

This is just another example of you insisting that fiction is fact, like the way you insisted that immigrants were required to know English.
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Of course, you can choose to keep your head buried in the sand. :mrgreen:
 
Gathomas88 said:
It is irrelevant. The difference between a 2.1 fertility rate and 2.4 fertility rate is not enough to account for the differences in population growth rates we're expecting to see over the course of the next fifty years (a roughly 10% increase for African Americans vs an almost 100% increase for Latinos).

The only possible explanation for that is the influence of immigration.
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If you do the math, a fertility rate of 2.4 works out to be a population growth rate of 1.3%. So if you start with a Hispanic population today of 53,000,000. You end up with a Hispanic population of 101,099,297 in 50 years and that is with no net immigration at all.

So math shows you are wrong on that one.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
If you do the math, a fertility rate of 2.4 works out to be a population growth rate of 1.3%. So if you start with a Hispanic population today of 53,000,000. You end up with a Hispanic population of 101,099,297 in 50 years and that is with no net immigration at all.

So math shows you are wrong on that one.
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53 million to 101 million?

Gee, that looks like almost double!!
 
sangha said:
And you can choose to continue believing fiction
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It's not fiction. I backed my statements that Massachusetts caters to illegal immigrants. Obviously, when you are giving benefits and drivers licenses and such other things to immigrants (mostly illegal ones) who cannot speak any English (cannot read SIGNS either), that is catering to them and certainly NOT encouraging them to learn English.
 
sangha said:
You said that blacks and Latinos have the same birth rate. You were wrong, but not honest enough to admit that you were wrong.
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I said that they had roughly the same birth rate. Keep up. :roll:

I see you still can't get the #'s right. It's 2.4, not two and 2.4 fertility rate does get them close to doubling in 50 years
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Not after you factor in death rates and all the other factors that go along with it.

Again, for the foreseeable future, somewhere between half and a third of the growth the United States' Latino population is going to experience will be due to immigration.

This is an undeniable fact.

Yeah, now there's no Mexican culture in Texas or California!
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It was a marginalized minority at best; largely forced to acclimate to US cultural norms. Now, it is displacing American culture, and spreading to further areas as well.

The only simple thing about that is that it is simply wrong.
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No, you are. If the culture in question finds its basis in another country, it is alien.

That is all there is to it.

This thread is not about you, but it's funny how you're using a personal anecdote after arguing that personal anecdotes are not good arguments.

Try again.
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And it's funny how you still insist upon relying upon them yourself.

Try again.

Latino culture is a part of American culture. Without it, American culture wouldn't be what it is.
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Complete and total nonsense.

The "culture" of 95% of this nation would be absolutely no different if a single Latino had never set foot in this country.

And Latino immigrants have, and will continue, to assimilate.
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Slowly, and with difficulties that are being compounded by absurd "multicultural" ideologies like your own.

I didn't say that it's not true. I guess you don't realize this but "Some of my best friends are (fill in the blank)" has been a classic line bigots have used to deny their bigotry. In All in the Family, Archie Bunker used to use his "friendship" with Lionel to argue that he wasn't a bigot.
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And? What's your point.

I don't care what you think about it. It is what it is.

sangha said:
Not enough? Over 50 years?

You do realize that 50 times the difference of .3 equals 1.5 and that's without compounding. And that to the 2, and you get 3.5 which means it's almost double the 2.1 rate of blacks, don't you?

Wait. You don't and you think you can lecture about simple math :lamo
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Again, Sangha. Death rates and other factors take away from most of that. :roll:

Without the effects of immigration, that Latino community might see somewhere around a 50% increase. They wouldn't see the 100% increase they're currently expecting.
 
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SouthernDemocrat said:
If you do the math, a fertility rate of 2.4 works out to be a population growth rate of 1.3%. So if you start with a Hispanic population today of 53,000,000. You end up with a Hispanic population of 101,099,297 in 50 years and that is with no net immigration at all.

So math shows you are wrong on that one.
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Are you claiming that the Hispanic population is NOT the fastest growing here in the United States?
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
If you do the math, a fertility rate of 2.4 works out to be a population growth rate of 1.3%. So if you start with a Hispanic population today of 53,000,000. You end up with a Hispanic population of 101,099,297 in 50 years and that is with no net immigration at all.

So math shows you are wrong on that one.
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sangha said:
53 million to 101 million?

Gee, that looks like almost double!!
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Again, because death rates apparently don't exist. :roll:
 
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