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Your opinion on Coke's version of America The Beautiful? [W:1014]

Do You like this version of "America The Beautiful?"


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Yes and data was provided here that indicates there are cities where 10% of the population does not know english. So what is your point?
My point was that there does appear to be people posting on this thread who assumed that because the Americans singing in the advert did so in languages other than English, they must be incapable of speaking English. Alternatively, they were dragging a thread about bi-lingual Americans using their non-English language in some situations off-topic and on to immigrants who can't speak English at all. A valid discussion in itself but a couple of steps off-topic in this thread.
 
My point was that there does appear to be people posting on this thread who assumed that because the Americans singing in the advert did so in languages other than English, they must be incapable of speaking English.
 
Sure, I'm comfortable with that.
I'm also comfortable shooting you in the head once I come home to find you as an intruder.

I see... When it's YOUR property it should be protected; with lethal force. When it's American property................ not so much.
 
Past immigration waves actually faced pressures to assimilate. For example, the state did not make provisions to accommodate non-English speakers until quite recently. And the fact that new immigrant waves are less diverse than previous ones (Mexicans represent 30% of new immigrants) makes clustering more likely, which hinders cultural, linguistic, and economic integration for obvious reasons

Actually that is not true. Using the vernacular of the neighborhood goes back to the early waves of immigration in the late 1800s and early 1900s. You can see the artifacts of that in museums all over the country.



No one suggested they were. Types of immigration were suggested as putting negative pressures on people and societies

What is negative?



You're appealing to tradition here. Economic situations change. We no longer have a need for a bunch of immigrants to fill manufacturing jobs

That is true, but immigrants will not flood here if there are no jobs Immigration crack downs have caused labor shortages in some southern states.
 
A couple of examples just from the first page, meaning they were in direct response to the OP rather than off-topic posts (and because I'm not trawling through 80-odd pages :( ). Of course, if you disagree there is always my alternative suggestion.

If a nation's citizens need one thing in common in order to function effectively, it tends to be a language they can all speak and mutually understand.

When someone comes here they may not speak English well yet, but the American ideal is still important to them. Maybe that is what they were going for.
 
Actually that is not true. Using the vernacular of the neighborhood goes back to the early waves of immigration in the late 1800s and early 1900s. You can see the artifacts of that in museums all over the country.

My above remarks simply don't deal with ethnic neighborhoods. It deals with the fact that there are less pressures on these communities to adopt English, due to the fact that such neighborhoods would be more pervasive and that the state is now catering to their language needs

What is negative?

Some of the things that have been mentioned in this thread are higher poverty rates than in the past, lower education rates, more difficulty in assimilating


That is true, but immigrants will not flood here if there are no jobs Immigration crack downs have caused labor shortages in some southern states.

In what sectors?
 
A couple of examples just from the first page, meaning they were in direct response to the OP rather than off-topic posts (and because I'm not trawling through 80-odd pages :( ). Of course, if you disagree there is always my alternative suggestion.

You're citing comments from a general discussion on immigration inspired by the commercial, and none of those remarks stem from the fact the writer assumed the person performing the song couldn't speak English
 
47% of Latinos do not believe that they are a part of the "typical" (i.e. "mainstream") American culture.


Hey why did you leave the ones that do:

And just one-in-five (21%) say they use the term “American” most often to describe their identity. On these two measures, U.S.-born Hispanics (who now make up 48% of Hispanic adults in the country) express a stronger sense of affinity with other Americans and America than do immigrant Hispanics.The survey finds that, regardless of where they were born, large majorities of Latinos say that life in the U.S. is better than in their family’s country of origin. Also, nearly nine-in-ten (87%) say it is important for immigrant Hispanics to learn English in order to succeed in the U.S.


So the majority, according to your source, say it's very important to learn English and the majority of US born Hispanics do relate to Americans more. What's the problem again?



Gathomas88 said:
Again, first (and even second) generation immigrants really can't be said to be from "native" American cultural groups either.


:( aw so I'm not part of your native American culture club now? I guess I better change my name to 'notreallyamericanwoman' :2razz:
 
You're citing comments from a general discussion on immigration inspired by the commercial, and none of those remarks stem from the fact the writer assumed the person performing the song couldn't speak English
So the thread was dragged off-topic then - immigrants incapable of speaking English have nothing to do with the Americans who can speak English (better than some "real" Americans) but sung in the advert in other languages. I think it's important to make the distinction clear.
 
So the thread was dragged off-topic then

No, people are having a discussion

immigrants incapable of speaking English have nothing to do with the Americans who can speak English (better than some "real" Americans) but sung in the advert in other languages. I think it's important to make the distinction clear.

I think you are just upset people are discussing things you don't like and want to play thread police
 
So here's a questioin: Why is it a debate worthy topic whenever a minority sticks out? Interracial cheerios ad, hispanic kid singing the national anthem at a basketball game, Richard Sherman, Dr. Carson....it just seems like whenever someone with brown skin opens their mouth, somebody loses their ****.

Anything that I mentioned there, white people wouldn't even get a mention - all white cheerios ad (yawn), white guy singing the anthem, white conservative says the same thing white conservatives have been saying for the last six years - none of that would be newsworthy. Brown skin - instant twittering....why is that?
 
Hey why did you leave the ones that do:

So the majority, according to your source, say it's very important to learn English and the majority of US born Hispanics do relate to Americans more. What's the problem again?

Ummm...

And just one-in-five (21%) say they use the term “American” most often to describe their identity

Considering the fact that only 36% of the Latino immigrant community in the United States is legitimately foreign born, that number is really pretty depressingly low.

:( aw so I'm not part of your native American culture club now? I guess I better change my name to 'notreallyamericanwoman' :2razz:

That depends on a lot of different factors. :lol:

You clearly speak the language, you've clearly made a significant effort to intermingle with the general population, and you clearly believe that your American identity trumps whatever you possessed before. You've assimilated.

A lot of Hispanic immigrants seem to struggle with this, even after multiple generations.

This isn't to say that Latinos can't assimilate. A great many of them do, and a great many more seem to desire to.

There simply does seem to be a certain subset of the Latino population that is reluctant to do so. This is problematic and needs to be addressed, not encouraged.

The fact that they represent an alien cultural influence in the United States is also undeniable. Their presence is forcing Americans to learn Spanish just as it is forcing Latinos immigrants to learn English. No other group of immigrants has had that impact.
 
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So here's a questioin: Why is it a debate worthy topic whenever a minority sticks out? Interracial cheerios ad, hispanic kid singing the national anthem at a basketball game, Richard Sherman, Dr. Carson....it just seems like whenever someone with brown skin opens their mouth, somebody loses their ****.

Anything that I mentioned there, white people wouldn't even get a mention - all white cheerios ad (yawn), white guy singing the anthem, white conservative says the same thing white conservatives have been saying for the last six years - none of that would be newsworthy. Brown skin - instant twittering....why is that?

Well, for me it has nothing to do with that. There were also Chinese people, etc. included in the commercial. For me it has to do with, instead of encouraging immigrants to learn and speak English, it seems like a lot of people want to keep them (and others who have to deal with them) at a disadvantage. There are absolutely no advantages to a person, living in a country and not being able to communicate effectively, and there are PLENTY of disadvantages. So the argument that some are giving makes absolutely no sense, and these people must have some kind of ulterior motives IMO.
 
Ummm...



Considering the fact that only 36% of the Latino immigrant community in the United States is legitimately foreign born, that number is really pretty depressingly low.



That depends on a lot of different factors. :lol:

You clearly speak the language, you've clearly made a significant effort to intermingle with the general population, and you clearly believe that your American identity trumps whatever you possessed before. You've assimilated.

A lot of Hispanic immigrants seem to struggle with this, even after multiple generations.

This isn't to say that Latinos can't assimilate. A great many of them do, and a great many more seem to desire to.

There simply does seem to be a certain subset of the Latino population that is reluctant to do so. This is problematic and needs to be addressed, not encouraged.

The fact that they represent an alien cultural influence in the United States is also undeniable. Their presence is forcing Americans to learn Spanish just as it is forcing Latinos immigrants to learn English. No other group of immigrants has had that impact.

Great point, and exactly what I was thinking too! :)
 
Well, for me it has nothing to do with that. There were also Chinese people, etc. included in the commercial. For me it has to do with, instead of encouraging immigrants to learn and speak English, it seems like a lot of people want to keep them (and others who have to deal with them) at a disadvantage. There are absolutely no advantages to a person, living in a country and not being able to communicate effectively, and there are PLENTY of disadvantages. So the argument that some are giving makes absolutely no sense, and these people must have some kind of ulterior motives IMO.

Well, we need to put it in perspective a little bit. The aim of the ad was not to encourage anybody to do anything other than buy Coca-Cola. I agree that there are many disadvantages to an immigrant not learning English, and that choosing that route seems incredibly stupid.

That said, we have to have this discussion EVERY freaking time any kind of minority pokes their head up and is noticed. Take it beyond this ad, what is up with the talking about the Cheerios ad? That was all in English, had nothing to do with immigration legal or otherwise. But we have to have a discussion about it. Hispanic kid (who was American, BTW) sings the national anthem (in English) at a basketball game, and we have to have the twits explode. Factually, it had nothing to do with immigration, because the kid wasn't an immigrant. He wasn't an illegal who wouldn't learn English, he was a native born American, spoke English too. Twits go nuts over it. WTF is up with that?
 
Well, we need to put it in perspective a little bit. The aim of the ad was not to encourage anybody to do anything other than buy Coca-Cola. I agree that there are many disadvantages to an immigrant not learning English, and that choosing that route seems incredibly stupid.

That said, we have to have this discussion EVERY freaking time any kind of minority pokes their head up and is noticed. Take it beyond this ad, what is up with the talking about the Cheerios ad? That was all in English, had nothing to do with immigration legal or otherwise. But we have to have a discussion about it. Hispanic kid (who was American, BTW) sings the national anthem (in English) at a basketball game, and we have to have the twits explode. Factually, it had nothing to do with immigration, because the kid wasn't an immigrant. He wasn't an illegal who wouldn't learn English, he was a native born American, spoke English too. Twits go nuts over it. WTF is up with that?

Well, come on! I'm sure that was the whole point of posting it, to evoke this exact discussion. How boring would this place be?! :lol: That's why we come here, right?
 
Great point, and exactly what I was thinking too! :)

Exactly.

People seem to be jumping to the conclusion that I hate immigrants here. That's simply not the case.

My best friend is actually a Pilipino American guy who came here "fresh off the boat" when he was around 12 years old. The difference between him and a lot of Hispanic immigrants, is that he has already more or less completely assimilated.

He speaks English fluently, he joined the Army, he married an American woman, and he behaves like you would expect an American to behave. If he didn't tell you, you wouldn't even know that he wasn't a native born American.

Frankly, this seems to be the case with most Asian Americans I meet. Sure, they might have a senile old grandmother hanging around somewhere who struggles with English, but pretty much everyone else will speak it very well, even if they are not necessarily fluent.
 
Exactly.

People seem to be jumping to the conclusion that I hate immigrants here. That's simply not the case.

My best friend is actually a Pilipino American guy who came here "fresh off the boat" when he was around 12 years old. The difference between him and a lot of Hispanic immigrants, is that he has already more or less completely assimilated.

He speaks English fluently, he joined the Army, he married an American woman, and he behaves like you would expect an American to behave. If he didn't tell you, you wouldn't even know that he wasn't a native born American.

Frankly, this seems to be the case with most Asian Americans I meet. Sure, they might have a senile old grandmother hanging around somewhere who struggles with English, but pretty much everyone else will speak it very well, even if they are not necessarily fluent.

Well, some people are just going to assume that you "hate" immigrants if you don't want to coddle them like infants. ;)
 
Well, come on! I'm sure that was the whole point of posting it, to evoke this exact discussion. How boring would this place be?! :lol: That's why we come here, right?

Here is one thing. This crap plays out on the Today show....
 
Here is one thing. This crap plays out on the Today show....

Of course, it's a topic of interest for many people. :shrug: Would you rather we not discuss issues, or just the ones you like and/or agree with? ;)
 
Again, Sangha, I don't really care what you think about it.

Yes, that's why you keep responding...because you don't care :roll:

That must be the oldest line on the internet!


The answer is staring you right in the face regardless of whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

There simply aren't enough Latino women having children out there to account for such a massive population increase using "native born" numbers alone. Most of that number is going to be due to immigrants bolstering the Latino community's numbers, or the first generation children of immigrants.

None of those people count as being a part of an established "native" cultural group. Culturally speaking, they are alien from the American cultural mainstream, and, as my other source pointed out, roughly half of them regard themselves as such.

You haven't shown how many american born Latina women there are, so once again you're just making up #'s

And Latinos are more established, and for a longer time, than your ancestors are.


Yes, it most certainly does, on both counts.

Again, Sangha, I don't know who you think you're fooling with all of this B.S. equivocation and semantic quibbling you're trying to pull out of your hindquarters here, but I can assure you that it certainly isn't me or anyone else with a functioning cerebellum. :lol:

You're the one whose hysteria has made you repeatedly conflate words and #'s together as if they were all the same. You have demonstrated an inability to distinguish differences.



Not for so long as immigration continues to account for roughly 50% of Hispanic population growth rates. :roll:

Again, first (and even second) generation immigrants really can't be said to be from "native" American cultural groups either.

Americanization and assimilation take time; especially when you're talking about a group which can have a strong tendency to want to isolate itself from outside influences.

if they ever come to form the majority in a given area, it might very well never occur at all. There simply wouldn't be a pressing reason for it.

And by claiming that people who are born in the US are not natives simply because they are Latino you prove your inability to understand the meaning of simply defined words. Anyone who was born in the US is a US native.....by definition.

And I live next to a town that is majority Latino. Many are not citizens. Almost all of them speak english.

Because, by and large, they are.

36% of Hispanic Latinos are foreign born, and most of the rest of them are either first or second generation.

For one thing, with 64% of them born in the US, they "by and large" are native born. Also, 2nd generation means "born in the US"

It's revealing that your beliefs are so bigoted towards Latinos that you can't acknowledge that people born in the US are "native born"

Unless they've become so Americanized as to have almost dropped their old ways entirely (which we have already pretty conclusively demonstrated is not the case a lot of the time), none of those people qualify as belonging to a "native" cultural group.

This isn't a bad thing in and of itself, but it does demonstrate that native cultural groups are in relative decline in comparison to Latino cultural influences.

And another sign that your beliefs are so bigoted is your requirement that Latinos drop their old ways almost entirely when no other ethnic group has to do so in order to be considered "American"
 
So here's a questioin: Why is it a debate worthy topic whenever a minority sticks out? Interracial cheerios ad, hispanic kid singing the national anthem at a basketball game, Richard Sherman, Dr. Carson....it just seems like whenever someone with brown skin opens their mouth, somebody loses their ****.

wouldn't a better question be why you are equating discussion of the cheerio add and this one? Do you think discussion of immigration policy and miscegenation are on an equal footing, or are you trying to equivocate between things to make a cheap accusation of racism?

Anything that I mentioned there, white people wouldn't even get a mention - all white cheerios ad (yawn), white guy singing the anthem, white conservative says the same thing white conservatives have been saying for the last six years - none of that would be newsworthy. Brown skin - instant twittering....why is that?

So you're asking why people would discuss something that deviates from the norm compared to something that doesn't? Also, do you think people wouldn't discuss a similar add that had russians singing the national anthem in their native tongue, or was the default assumption of racism too easy?
 
Take it beyond this ad, what is up with the talking about the Cheerios ad?

Why not ask people discussing the cheerios add?


Hispanic kid (who was American, BTW) sings the national anthem (in English) at a basketball game, and we have to have the twits explode. Factually, it had nothing to do with immigration, because the kid wasn't an immigrant. He wasn't an illegal who wouldn't learn English, he was a native born American, spoke English too. Twits go nuts over it. WTF is up with that?

Again, what does their origin and background have to do with the commercial? Unless it was a biopic piece they were simply a performer, independent of the perceived message.
 
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Exactly.

People seem to be jumping to the conclusion that I hate immigrants here. That's simply not the case.

My best friend is actually a Pilipino American guy who came here "fresh off the boat" when he was around 12 years old. The difference between him and a lot of Hispanic immigrants, is that he has already more or less completely assimilated.

He speaks English fluently, he joined the Army, he married an American woman, and he behaves like you would expect an American to behave. If he didn't tell you, you wouldn't even know that he wasn't a native born American.

Frankly, this seems to be the case with most Asian Americans I meet. Sure, they might have a senile old grandmother hanging around somewhere who struggles with English, but pretty much everyone else will speak it very well, even if they are not necessarily fluent.

Yes, you have a friend who is an immigrant. Gee, I never heard that one before
 
Of course, it's a topic of interest for many people. :shrug: Would you rather we not discuss issues, or just the ones you like and/or agree with? ;)

It shouldn't be an issue though. Why is it an issue when the kid singing the national anthem has Mexican heritage? Why is it an issue if Cheerios has an ad with an interracial family - there's interracial families all over the place.
 
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