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Your opinion on Coke's version of America The Beautiful? [W:1014]

Do You like this version of "America The Beautiful?"

  • Total voters
    104
Carjosse said:
It is impossible to define an what an ideal Canadian is, it many different things to many different people. Canada.
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Many Canadians are not aware of the Canadian culture until they return home after spending some time in foreign cultures. I suspect the same is true for everyone.
 
Gathomas88 said:
.............
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Making an actual effort to behave like one, and become a contributing member of our society.
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What does making an effort mean
what does one do when they behave like one
what qualifies someone to be classified as a contributing member

The basic problems with these is that you, typically, offer a very narrow definition that really only works as long as you're the one making the rules.

If a person moves to a foreign country, but continues to behave exactly as they did in their old homeland (even to the point of failing to learn the local language)
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For some people learning a second language is very difficult and they never master it. It does not mean the should be excluded from being considered an American

It is basically an indicator showing that they have no real interest in becoming a member of their new nation, but are rather simply there for their own selfish gain
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Frankly that last part makes it sound like they would fit right in.

as for being an indicator...that is a matter of your personal judgment and unless you have a big gold hat on your head, it is not a legitimate criteria for determining someones deservedness

Unless they have something else we need (money, knowledge, valuable skills, etca), those kinds of people simply are not the type we need around.
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That's about as fundamentally an UnAmerican thing as I've heard anyone say. Please go back to your homeland.

Some degree of proficiency in the English language should absolutely be required for citizenship. Immigrants who cannot communicate in the language used by roughly 99% of a given nation's population are of no use to anyone, and will likely only be a burden.
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Again don't assume inability means unwillingness. You have no idea WHY someone hasn't learned the language. Besides, something tells me that "not speaking english" creates an unwelcome burden for anyone immigrating here that I am sure they would rather not have.

Are you actually saying that if you don't speak english you are of no use. Man that is so ****ed up I don't even know where to start.

I've got no problem with diversity.
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As long as they are exactly like you?

It's heart was in the right place. It's "multicultural" ideological focus was simply fundamentally flawed.
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You read all of that into it. I don't think the creators of the commercial are the ones with the problem here.

The simple fact of the matter is that "Americaness" should trump all other ethnic considerations when a person chooses to settle in our country
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WTH does that even mean???!!!

Rather, it was suggesting that common culture and identity did not matter, so long as some loose sense of patriotism was maintained.
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You are being superficial. It got to the very heart of what we have in common. Speaking a different language is not an indicator of what country you are loyal too.
 
Gathomas88 said:
I think I read into it exactly what was meant; "we're all Americans, we simply speak different languages, and have different cultures."

Again, that's fine. What I object to is the notion that this is a desirable thing in and of itself. Assimilation, and the unity it creates, should be the goal, not "multiculturalism," and the ethnic factionalism in which it always inevitably results.

I don't think the ad itself was overly political. I was simply uncomfortable with its premise.
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One of the worst possible things in a given nation is large segments of the population who are utterly unable to communicate with each other.




Just in my county, we have a large Hispanic community, a fairly large Asian community (mostly Hmong, Cambodian and Laotian, some Korean and Chinese also), fairly decent number of Hindi and a scattering of Pakistani and etc... well, not one person in a million is enough of a polyglot to learn ALL those languages... so we need ONE common tongue everyone speaks that is the official language.

How can people feel a fellow-citizen-connection with a community they cannot communicate with? Not easily...
 
Superfly said:
You don't see this happening, but a lot of people do. Not all immigrants are illegals. Many are hardworking citizens who pay taxes, go to work, put their kids in school, etc. Not these awful miscreants who are just drains on society.
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I'm not saying that they all are. There are plenty of hard working immigrants in this country who seem to legitimately understand how to become productive members of our society.

Asian Americans, for instance; seem to "get" the idea behind assimilation remarkably well on average. They have prospered (some times, even to a greater extent than native born Americans) as such.

However, you cannot really deny that there are some immigrant populations out there which seem to struggle with this concept, and that this can be a legitimate problem.

The last thing we need to be doing right now is blatantly encouraging them to persist in such behavior.
 
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Dr. Chuckles said:
Again, cultural assimilation and integration isn't a yes/no question. It's one of degrees and no one has endorsed the idea that everyone needs to be uniform.
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That would be reflected in E Pluribus Unum, a great motto.
 
Grant said:
I would think, as a free man, that in order to be a better person you should believe what I believe.

You are not American, right?
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Are you one of those guys that wants to cram your words down other peoples throats. No thanks.
 
Grant said:
Many Canadians are not aware of the Canadian culture until they return home after spending some time in foreign cultures. I suspect the same is true for everyone.
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Canada kind of lacks the same type of defined culture that a county like the U.S. has. What I missed when I left was the people and things like the CBC. I also missed our politics believe it or not.
 
grip said:
Oh yah, I'd like to but the cost for any real, decent stay is astronomical. Even some more exotic places like New Zealand, Cancun, Cozumel, Belize, Morocco and Hawaii.
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Hawaii, that's another place I want to visit. :) Perfect weather all the time.
 
Goshin said:
How can people feel a fellow-citizen-connection with a community they cannot communicate with? Not easily...
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Exactly. It simply isn't possible to form a meaningful sense of collective identity or purpose in such an environment.

Instead, people tend to gravitate only to the interests of their particular ethnic group. This creates unnecessary factionalism, which can be (and often is) harmful to society as a whole if left unchecked.
 
Gathomas88 said:
I'm not saying that they all are. There are plenty of hard working immigrants in this country who seem to legitimately understand how to become productive members of our society.

Asian Americans, for instance; seem to "get" the idea behind assimilation remarkably well on average. They have prospered (some times, even to a greater degree than native born Americans) as such.

However, you cannot really deny that there are some immigrant populations out there which seem to struggle with this concept, and that this can be a legitimate problem.

The last thing we need to be doing right now is blatantly encouraging them to persist in such behavior.
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Exactly, they are responsible for themselves. There is no reason why we have to coddle immigrants and change our ways to make things easier for them, while at the same time making things even more difficult for ourselves. It doesn't even make sense to me that people would want a country where no one speaks the same language. How would you ever communicate with others to get anything accomplished? It would create such problems and cost so much extra money for signs in other languages, etc. It's just such a stupid suggestion.
 
Gathomas88 said:
Exactly. It simply isn't possible to form a meaningful sense of collective identity or purpose in such an environment.

Instead, people tend to gravitate only to the interests of their particular ethnic group. This creates unnecessary factionalism, which can be (and often is) harmful to society as a whole if left unchecked.
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They gravitate because when they have the numbers it's just easier and less hassle than to bother with the language/culture thing. If it continues, however, it will lead to the ghettoization of that community.
 
Gathomas88 said:
Exactly. It simply isn't possible to form a meaningful sense of collective identity or purpose in such an environment.

Instead, people tend to gravitate only to the interests of their particular ethnic group. This creates unnecessary factionalism, which can be (and often is) harmful to society as a whole if left unchecked.
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Exactly, thank you.


It's one thing to have your own family traditions and celebrate your origins and such... nothing wrong with that.

But when an inability to communicate with large swathes of the general population is the norm... how do you integrate? How do you establish a sense of belonging and fellow-citizenship when you can't even have a frigging conversation??



As I said, in my own county (rural south), we have fairly substantial populations who speak Spanish, Vietnamese, Cambodian/Laotian, Korean, Chinese, Hindi and Arabic as their native tongues... can anyone seriously suggest that we accommodate ALL those languages in every gov't office? Even if we did, how do we form a community when most of the local natives can't talk to most of the Hispanics, who can't talk to the Cambodians, who can't carry on a conversation with the Hindi, etc etc... unless we pick one language as the real official language?

Like say I dunno... English? Just a suggestion... :roll:
 
ChrisL said:
Exactly, they are responsible for themselves. There is no reason why we have to coddle immigrants and change our ways to make things easier for them, while at the same time making things even more difficult for ourselves. It doesn't even make sense to me that people would want a country where no one speaks the same language. How would you ever communicate with others to get anything accomplished? It would create such problems and cost so much extra money for signs in other languages, etc. It's just such a stupid suggestion.
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It is very foolish because each ethnic community (often with sub groups such as sex, etc.) works against the other in order to advance their own group. Politicians will, of course, exploit these schisms and you will have Americans (or Canadian) vying against each other rather than cooperating for the national good.

In fact that all sounds very familiar now.
 
Goshin said:
One of the worst possible things in a given nation is large segments of the population who are utterly unable to communicate with each other.


Just in my county, we have a large Hispanic community, a fairly large Asian community (mostly Hmong, Cambodian and Laotian, some Korean and Chinese also), fairly decent number of Hindi and a scattering of Pakistani and etc... well, not one person in a million is enough of a polyglot to learn ALL those languages... so we need ONE common tongue everyone speaks that is the official language.

How can people feel a fellow-citizen-connection with a community they cannot communicate with? Not easily...
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You can also promote bilingualism like we do and language differences tend to end with the first generation immigrants, the children will speak whatever language is the official/dominant language(s) in the country.
 
Carjosse said:
You can also promote bilingualism like we do and language differences tend to end with the first generation immigrants, the children will speak whatever language is the official/dominant language(s) in the country.
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I've already pointed out that it isn't merely a question of bilingualism. In my rural southern county we've got substantial populations that speak Spanish, Vietnamese, Cambodian/Laotian, Chinese, Korean, Hindi dialects and Arabic.

You can't accommodate ALL those languages in all ways.... and again, this is a semi-rural county, many places have FAR more diverse populations.
 
Goshin said:
I've already pointed out that it isn't merely a question of bilingualism. In my rural southern county we've got substantial populations that speak Spanish, Vietnamese, Cambodian/Laotian, Chinese, Korean, Hindi dialects and Arabic.

You can't accommodate ALL those languages in all ways.... and again, this is a semi-rural county, many places have FAR more diverse populations.
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Give it a generation, all of the children will be speaking English and the parents will have to be able to speak somewhat well.
 
Carjosse said:
Give it a generation, all of the children will be speaking English and the parents will have to be able to speak somewhat well.
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That's part of the problem: some people seem to think we're being horrific terrible bigots if we expect them to learn to speak English. :roll:
 
opendebate said:
What does making an effort mean
what does one do when they behave like one
what qualifies someone to be classified as a contributing member
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I refer you here to the response I made when Superfly asked the same question.

Gathomas88 said:
They speak our language. They obey our laws. They make an effort to ingratiate themselves with the people living here before they arrived and contribute something to the collective whole of our society as a whole.

They don't saunter in like they own the place, and demand that everyone else change to accommodate them. Such people are not behaving like potential citizens, with an interest in becoming a part of our greater culture, but arrogant tourists.

They should be treated as such.
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If someone wants to be a part of our community, they are going to have to be wiling to "play the game." It's as simple as that.

The basic problems with these is that you, typically, offer a very narrow definition that really only works as long as you're the one making the rules.
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It's our country. If a given individual doesn't like the way we happen to do things, they don't have to live here.

"In Rome, do as the Romans do."

For some people learning a second language is very difficult and they never master it. It does not mean the should be excluded from being considered an American
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They don't have to "master" anything. A basic level of competency should suffice.

Frankly, if the immigrant in question is too dense to handle even that, what on Earth would we want them for anyway?

The United States isn't a non-profit charity. We need people who are actually going to contribute to making this country better, not hold it back.

Frankly that last part makes it sound like they would fit right in.
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That's not a good thing.

That's about as fundamentally an UnAmerican thing as I've heard anyone say. Please go back to your homeland.
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It's the truth. :lol:

Someone who "brings something to the table" will always be worth more than someone who has nothing to offer.

Besides, something tells me that "not speaking english" creates an unwelcome burden for anyone immigrating here that I am sure they would rather not have.
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They apparently keep coming anyway regardless.

You tell me why. :shrug:

As long as they are exactly like you?
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As long as they make an attempt to transition themselves into our society as large.

WTH does that even mean???!!!
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It means that when you come to this nation, you cease being whatever you were before, and become an "American" instead.

There is a difference between being an "American" and a Mexican, Canadian, or etca who simply happens to be living "in America."

If a person is not willing to commit themselves to this nation or its common cultural identity (language being one aspect of that), they frankly have no business being here.

You are being superficial. It got to the very heart of what we have in common. Speaking a different language is not an indicator of what country you are loyal too.
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It certainly isn't an indicator of loyalty to this one.
 
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Goshin said:
That's part of the problem: some people seem to think we're being horrific terrible bigots if we expect them to learn to speak English. :roll:
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Where is the Spanish translation of your post at?:2razz:
 
Carjosse said:
You can also promote bilingualism like we do and language differences tend to end with the first generation immigrants, the children will speak whatever language is the official/dominant language(s) in the country.
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Are you kidding? That is ridiculous. Of COURSE, they have to be able to read, write and speak English in order to become a legalized citizen. How will they get a job and work? How can they read signs? Just a couple of issues there.
 
Goshin said:
That's part of the problem: some people seem to think we're being horrific terrible bigots if we expect them to learn to speak English. :roll:
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It is perfectly reasonable, speak the official language as a first language and and you can speak whatever you want as a second.
 
Goshin said:
Exactly, thank you.


It's one thing to have your own family traditions and celebrate your origins and such... nothing wrong with that.

But when an inability to communicate with large swathes of the general population is the norm... how do you integrate? How do you establish a sense of belonging and fellow-citizenship when you can't even have a frigging conversation??



As I said, in my own county (rural south), we have fairly substantial populations who speak Spanish, Vietnamese, Cambodian/Laotian, Korean, Chinese, Hindi and Arabic as their native tongues... can anyone seriously suggest that we accommodate ALL those languages in every gov't office? Even if we did, how do we form a community when most of the local natives can't talk to most of the Hispanics, who can't talk to the Cambodians, who can't carry on a conversation with the Hindi, etc etc... unless we pick one language as the real official language?

Like say I dunno... English? Just a suggestion... :roll:
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Naw I think we should go with Latin.
 
ChrisL said:
Exactly, they are responsible for themselves. There is no reason why we have to coddle immigrants and change our ways to make things easier for them, while at the same time making things even more difficult for ourselves. It doesn't even make sense to me that people would want a country where no one speaks the same language. How would you ever communicate with others to get anything accomplished? It would create such problems and cost so much extra money for signs in other languages, etc. It's just such a stupid suggestion.
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It seems there are some non-Americans who feel they have the power to tell Americans which laws they should enact and follow. Even an even tempered fellow like myself might get annoyed with this lot. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/04/u...hey-may-be-open-to-a-gop-compromise.html?_r=0
 
If I moved to Paris and applied for a work permit with intention of becoming a French citizen, one of the first and biggest items on my agenda would be "learn to speak French quickly and then work hard at mastering it!"


Can't really be a Frenchman if you don't frigging speak French...
 
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