View Poll Results: Do You like this version of "America The Beautiful?"

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    73 57.48%
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Thread: Your opinion on Coke's version of America The Beautiful? [W:1014]

  1. #871
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    re: Your opinion on Coke's version of America The Beautiful? [W:1014]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Again, Sangha, I don't really care what you think about it.
    Yes, that's why you keep responding...because you don't care

    That must be the oldest line on the internet!


    The answer is staring you right in the face regardless of whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

    There simply aren't enough Latino women having children out there to account for such a massive population increase using "native born" numbers alone. Most of that number is going to be due to immigrants bolstering the Latino community's numbers, or the first generation children of immigrants.

    None of those people count as being a part of an established "native" cultural group. Culturally speaking, they are alien from the American cultural mainstream, and, as my other source pointed out, roughly half of them regard themselves as such.
    You haven't shown how many american born Latina women there are, so once again you're just making up #'s

    And Latinos are more established, and for a longer time, than your ancestors are.


    Yes, it most certainly does, on both counts.

    Again, Sangha, I don't know who you think you're fooling with all of this B.S. equivocation and semantic quibbling you're trying to pull out of your hindquarters here, but I can assure you that it certainly isn't me or anyone else with a functioning cerebellum.
    You're the one whose hysteria has made you repeatedly conflate words and #'s together as if they were all the same. You have demonstrated an inability to distinguish differences.



    Not for so long as immigration continues to account for roughly 50% of Hispanic population growth rates.

    Again, first (and even second) generation immigrants really can't be said to be from "native" American cultural groups either.

    Americanization and assimilation take time; especially when you're talking about a group which can have a strong tendency to want to isolate itself from outside influences.

    if they ever come to form the majority in a given area, it might very well never occur at all. There simply wouldn't be a pressing reason for it.
    And by claiming that people who are born in the US are not natives simply because they are Latino you prove your inability to understand the meaning of simply defined words. Anyone who was born in the US is a US native.....by definition.

    And I live next to a town that is majority Latino. Many are not citizens. Almost all of them speak english.

    Because, by and large, they are.

    36% of Hispanic Latinos are foreign born, and most of the rest of them are either first or second generation.
    For one thing, with 64% of them born in the US, they "by and large" are native born. Also, 2nd generation means "born in the US"

    It's revealing that your beliefs are so bigoted towards Latinos that you can't acknowledge that people born in the US are "native born"

    Unless they've become so Americanized as to have almost dropped their old ways entirely (which we have already pretty conclusively demonstrated is not the case a lot of the time), none of those people qualify as belonging to a "native" cultural group.

    This isn't a bad thing in and of itself, but it does demonstrate that native cultural groups are in relative decline in comparison to Latino cultural influences.
    And another sign that your beliefs are so bigoted is your requirement that Latinos drop their old ways almost entirely when no other ethnic group has to do so in order to be considered "American"
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  2. #872
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    re: Your opinion on Coke's version of America The Beautiful? [W:1014]

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    So here's a questioin: Why is it a debate worthy topic whenever a minority sticks out? Interracial cheerios ad, hispanic kid singing the national anthem at a basketball game, Richard Sherman, Dr. Carson....it just seems like whenever someone with brown skin opens their mouth, somebody loses their ****.
    wouldn't a better question be why you are equating discussion of the cheerio add and this one? Do you think discussion of immigration policy and miscegenation are on an equal footing, or are you trying to equivocate between things to make a cheap accusation of racism?

    Anything that I mentioned there, white people wouldn't even get a mention - all white cheerios ad (yawn), white guy singing the anthem, white conservative says the same thing white conservatives have been saying for the last six years - none of that would be newsworthy. Brown skin - instant twittering....why is that?
    So you're asking why people would discuss something that deviates from the norm compared to something that doesn't? Also, do you think people wouldn't discuss a similar add that had russians singing the national anthem in their native tongue, or was the default assumption of racism too easy?

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    re: Your opinion on Coke's version of America The Beautiful? [W:1014]

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Take it beyond this ad, what is up with the talking about the Cheerios ad?
    Why not ask people discussing the cheerios add?


    Hispanic kid (who was American, BTW) sings the national anthem (in English) at a basketball game, and we have to have the twits explode. Factually, it had nothing to do with immigration, because the kid wasn't an immigrant. He wasn't an illegal who wouldn't learn English, he was a native born American, spoke English too. Twits go nuts over it. WTF is up with that?
    Again, what does their origin and background have to do with the commercial? Unless it was a biopic piece they were simply a performer, independent of the perceived message.
    Last edited by Dr. Chuckles; 02-07-14 at 11:48 AM.

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    re: Your opinion on Coke's version of America The Beautiful? [W:1014]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Exactly.

    People seem to be jumping to the conclusion that I hate immigrants here. That's simply not the case.

    My best friend is actually a Pilipino American guy who came here "fresh off the boat" when he was around 12 years old. The difference between him and a lot of Hispanic immigrants, is that he has already more or less completely assimilated.

    He speaks English fluently, he joined the Army, he married an American woman, and he behaves like you would expect an American to behave. If he didn't tell you, you wouldn't even know that he wasn't a native born American.

    Frankly, this seems to be the case with most Asian Americans I meet. Sure, they might have a senile old grandmother hanging around somewhere who struggles with English, but pretty much everyone else will speak it very well, even if they are not necessarily fluent.
    Yes, you have a friend who is an immigrant. Gee, I never heard that one before
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    re: Your opinion on Coke's version of America The Beautiful? [W:1014]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Of course, it's a topic of interest for many people. Would you rather we not discuss issues, or just the ones you like and/or agree with?
    It shouldn't be an issue though. Why is it an issue when the kid singing the national anthem has Mexican heritage? Why is it an issue if Cheerios has an ad with an interracial family - there's interracial families all over the place.


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    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
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    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    re: Your opinion on Coke's version of America The Beautiful? [W:1014]

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    It shouldn't be an issue though. Why is it an issue when the kid singing the national anthem has Mexican heritage? Why is it an issue if Cheerios has an ad with an interracial family - there's interracial families all over the place.
    Well, like I said earlier in the thread, I don't really have an issue with the commercial itself. I don't know about the Cheerios ad, and interracial families don't bother me at all. This particular ad though, has some people feeling as if some sectors of our community might be encouraging immigrants to remain ignorant of English. Heritage is not really the issue at all.

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    re: Your opinion on Coke's version of America The Beautiful? [W:1014]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Well, like I said earlier in the thread, I don't really have an issue with the commercial itself. I don't know about the Cheerios ad, and interracial families don't bother me at all. This particular ad though, has some people feeling as if some sectors of our community might be encouraging immigrants to remain ignorant of English. Heritage is not really the issue at all.
    And yet, I haven't seen one example of anyone being discouraged from learning English and according to the poll that was posted 90% of all Latinos say that learning English is very important.
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    re: Your opinion on Coke's version of America The Beautiful? [W:1014]

    Quote Originally Posted by Sangha
    Yes, that's why you keep responding...because you don't care

    That must be the oldest line on the internet!
    No, I don't care about your arguments, because they're laughably wrong.

    It doesn't mean I don't care about the issue, or will fail to point the above fact out to you as many times as is necessary to drive the point home.

    You haven't shown how many american born Latina women there are, so once again you're just making up #'s
    Again, Sangha, this is simple mathematics here. If the Latino community is roughly the same size as the Black community, and has roughly the same birthrate, why is one expected to double in size over the course of the next fifty years, where the other remains virtually stagnant?

    If they're not popping out of vaginas, where are all those extra people coming from?



    And Latinos are more established, and for a longer time, than your ancestors are.
    Derp! Prove it.

    You're the one whose hysteria has made you repeatedly conflate words and #'s together as if they were all the same. You have demonstrated an inability to distinguish differences.
    Blah, blah, blah. All you've demonstrated is an inability to make viable counter-arguments.

    And by claiming that people who are born in the US are not natives simply because they are Latino you prove your inability to understand the meaning of simply defined words. Anyone who was born in the US is a US native.....by definition.
    "Native cultural groups," Sangha. Do try to keep up.

    It doesn't matter where you were born, if you are not making an attempt to integrate yourself into the local culture.

    And I live next to a town that is majority Latino. Many are not citizens. Almost all of them speak english.
    Unverifiable personal anecdote for the win!

    And another sign that your beliefs are so bigoted is your requirement that Latinos drop their old ways almost entirely when no other ethnic group has to do so in order to be considered "American"
    Everyone else did it. Hell! My ancestors did it.

    What the Hell makes Latinos think they are so special?

    "In Rome do as the Romans do." If they want to be unique little flowers, they can do so somewhere else.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 02-07-14 at 12:02 PM.

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    re: Your opinion on Coke's version of America The Beautiful? [W:1014]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    And yet, I haven't seen one example of anyone being discouraged from learning English and according to the poll that was posted 90% of all Latinos say that learning English is very important.
    Well, why aren't they learning it then? If it was so important, you would think this wouldn't be an issue, yet it is. So common sense would tell me, that the sources posted suck and are not accurate. Besides, people lie on poll questions all the time.

    Heck, maybe they didn't even understand the question if it was asked in English? I used to work with an illegal immigrant (or at least I believed him to be an illegal), and he faced the clock at our work station (this was when I was like 15), and every time I asked him what time it was, he would answer either say "yes" or "no."

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    re: Your opinion on Coke's version of America The Beautiful? [W:1014]

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    It shouldn't be an issue though. Why is it an issue when the kid singing the national anthem has Mexican heritage? Why is it an issue if Cheerios has an ad with an interracial family - there's interracial families all over the place.
    1) why are you equating the two

    2) why do you keep ignoring that the perceived message of a a piece of media could be distinct to those performing in it?

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