View Poll Results: Do You like this version of "America The Beautiful?"

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Thread: Your opinion on Coke's version of America The Beautiful? [W:1014]

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    re: Your opinion on Coke's version of America The Beautiful? [W:1014]

    Quote Originally Posted by Sangha
    For of all of your apologetics, Gath clings to his belief that the # of white people represents the # of "native born americans"
    Quote Originally Posted by Sangha
    True, but I think the bigger, and more revealing, point is that both Gath and cpwill believe that the # of white people is the same as the # of native born americans.

    After all, how could a non-white person be american?
    Predictably, you continue to lie, race bait, and blatantly misrepresent our positions as you have nothing else to offer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sangha
    The only "ideological" message that Coke put forward was "Buy our product"
    By hawking a political message which simply happened to be nauseatingly politically correct.

    I'm sure that was just a coincidence.

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    re: Your opinion on Coke's version of America The Beautiful? [W:1014]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    The latino population in the US is expected to double in the next fifty years, Sangha. Their birth rates are not appreciably higher than the rest of the population.

    This means that most of that growth is coming from immigration. As such, most of the Latinos in the United States are going to be either immigrants, or the first or second generation descendants of them.
    Nope. you're making stuff up. You have posted nothing to show that most of the Latinos in the US are going to be immigrants and are not going to assimilate

    Half of Latinos not believing themselves to fit into mainstream American culture isn't a sign of problems with assimilation?
    You're making up #'s again. Half of Latinos did not say they don't fit into mainstream American culture.



    Yea, that's cute... If your family already been here for 100 years or more.

    When you've just arrived, barely speak the language, and haven't filed for citizenship? Ehhh... Not so much.
    85% of all Latinos speak English as their primary language.



    Again, because in Sangha land, a clear demonstration of the fact that native cultural groups are in decline while immigrant and first or second generation populations from an alien culture explode means absolutely nothing.
    You have not shown that "native cultural groups" are in decline, and Latinos have been an American cultural group since long before your ancestors became an american cultural group.




    Simple logic would dictate that the act of merely living somewhere doesn't make a person an assimilated member of that area's culture.
    Simple logic would show you that "latino" doesn't mean "immigrant".
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    re: Your opinion on Coke's version of America The Beautiful? [W:1014]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Predictably, you continue to lie, race bait, and blatantly misrepresent our positions as you have nothing else to offer.



    By hawking a political message which simply happened to be nauseatingly politically correct.

    I'm sure that was just a coincidence.
    Mr. Thomas...you don't at all see that ad as a money making ploy? I do get the MC under tone, but I see coke seizing an opportunity. Cultural / race issue are hot issues. They're just pouring out the love.

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    re: Your opinion on Coke's version of America The Beautiful? [W:1014]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Nope. you're making stuff up. You have posted nothing to show that most of the Latinos in the US are going to be immigrants and are not going to assimilate
    Black and Hispanic fertility rates are very nearly the same. The portion of our population made up by African Americans will only increase by 1% in the next 50 years. The Hispanic portion will double.

    You tell me, Sangha. Where are all those extra people coming from, if not immigration?

    You're making up #'s again. Half of Latinos did not say they don't fit into mainstream American culture.
    They absolutely do.

    When Labels Don’t Fit: Hispanics and Their Views of Identity

    ◾Latinos are split on whether they see themselves as a typical American. Nearly half (47%) say they are a typical American, while another 47% say they are very different from the typical American. Foreign-born Hispanics are less likely than native-born Hispanics to say they are a typical American—34% versus 66%.
    Ignoring black and white figures placed directly under your nose isn't going to make them go away, Sangha.

    85% of all Latinos speak English as their primary language.
    Nope. 15% do.

    NY Times

    Even as many Latinos learn English, they continue to retain and use Spanish. According to the report, 44 percent of Latino adults, whether born abroad or in the United States, said they were bilingual, while 41 percent said they spoke mainly Spanish. Only 15 percent of Latino adults said they were “largely English speakers."
    Again, these numbers aren't going to go away simply because you do not like them.

    You have not shown that "native cultural groups" are in decline, and Latinos have been an American cultural group since long before your ancestors became an american cultural group.
    Are you really trying to claim that immigrants and the first generation children of immigrants could be considered to belong to the "native culture" of a nation?

    You might want to reconsider that statement.

    Simple logic would show you that "latino" doesn't mean "immigrant".
    Except for when they are immigrants, or the children of them.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 02-06-14 at 11:58 PM.

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    re: Your opinion on Coke's version of America The Beautiful? [W:1014]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    again, if the complaint is that people are participating in a discussion simply initiated by coke, then you're really not "boycotting" anything by participating in that discussion. Even if your participation is ironically limited to you cooing about how you're above participating in it
    Maybe if you would stop nitpicking over every little thing I said because of some need to be right, I could exit the discussion already.

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    re: Your opinion on Coke's version of America The Beautiful? [W:1014]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Black and Hispanic fertility rates are very nearly the same. The portion of our population made up by African Americans will only increase by 1% in the next 50 years. The Hispanic portion will double.

    You tell me, Sangha. Where are all those extra people coming from, if not immigration?
    Native born Latinos, of course!

    But you don't seem to understand that Latinos can be american too.

    They absolutely do.

    When Labels Donít Fit: Hispanics and Their Views of Identity



    Ignoring black and white figures placed directly under your nose isn't going to make them go away, Sangha.
    They absolutely do not. The quote does not say what you think it says.


    Nope. 15% do.

    NY Times
    Nope. That # only applies to adults.

    Are you really trying to claim that immigrants and the first generation children of immigrants could be considered to belong to the "native culture" of a nation?

    You might want to reconsider that statement.
    I am claiming that Latinos have been a part of american culture since there was an american culture. Some latino families have been in the US for longer than your family has.

    Except for when they are immigrants, or the children of them.
    Umm, no. The children of immigrants are not immigrants if they were born in the US.

    And latino does not mean immigrant.

    PS - white means immigrant when they are immigrants.

    You just can't let go of the delusion that latinos are not american. In your head, it is just impossible for latinos to be american.
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    re: Your opinion on Coke's version of America The Beautiful? [W:1014]

    Sure i guess. I could really care less. Oh my god they sang a song in different languages! Get the **** over yourselves.


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    re: Your opinion on Coke's version of America The Beautiful? [W:1014]

    Quote Originally Posted by Sangha
    Native born Latinos, of course!


    Okay, so math apparently isn't your strong suit.

    Let's try this again.

    Both groups have more or less the same birth rate, but one is expected to double in overall population proportion, whereas the other will remain more or less stagnant.

    Clearly, the people making up the difference in this equation are not simply materializing out of thin air, so they must be coming from some other source. As birthrate has already been accounted for, the only other source available is immigration.

    Ergo, immigration is the answer to the question of why the Latino population is going to see massive population growth, where the African American population will not.

    Feel free to keep playing dumb and lying about this basic fact though! It's not like it's going to help your argument here.

    Anyone with two brain cells to rub together can already tell that you're wrong.

    They absolutely do not. The quote does not say what you think it says.
    47% of Latinos do not believe that they are a part of the "typical" (i.e. "mainstream") American culture.

    Again, it doesn't matter if you are honest enough to admit that to your argument's short comings here. Anyone who reads the damn quotation can already tell that you're wrong.

    When Labels Don’t Fit: Hispanics and Their Views of Identity

    ◾Latinos are split on whether they see themselves as a typical American. Nearly half (47%) say they are a typical American, while another 47% say they are very different from the typical American. Foreign-born Hispanics are less likely than native-born Hispanics to say they are a typical American—34% versus 66%.
    Who do you think you're fooling, exactly? It certainly isn't me, or anyone else capable of looking at this issue in a logical manner.

    Nope. That # only applies to adults.
    Yea, and? So what?

    There are over 50 million Latinos in the United States, only a little over 10 million are under the age of 18.

    What do you think this changes?

    For so long as immigration remains the major driving force behind Latino population growth, adults are going to remain the driving force behind Latino culture in the US.

    I am claiming that Latinos have been a part of american culture since there was an american culture. Some latino families have been in the US for longer than your family has.
    Again, so what? We're not talking about people who have been here for generations. We're talking about immigrants.

    If a person just moved to the United States from Columbia, they would not belong to a "native born" US cultural group. Frankly, neither would their children. They would be in the process of transition.

    It's as simple as that.

    Umm, no. The children of immigrants are not immigrants if they were born in the US.

    And latino does not mean immigrant.

    PS - white means immigrant when they are immigrants.

    You just can't let go of the delusion that latinos are not american. In your head, it is just impossible for latinos to be american.
    Your opinion on Coke's version of America The Beautiful? [W:1014]-strawman-jpg
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 02-07-14 at 12:50 AM.

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    re: Your opinion on Coke's version of America The Beautiful? [W:1014]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post


    Okay, so math apparently isn't your strong suit.

    Let's try this again.

    Both groups have more or less the same birth rate, but one is expected to double in overall population proportion, whereas the other will remain more or less stagnant.

    Clearly, the people making up the difference in this equation are not simply materializing out of thin air, so they must be coming from some other source. As birthrate has already been accounted for, the only other source available is immigration.

    Ergo, immigration is the answer to the question of why the Latino population is going to see massive population growth, where the African American population will not.

    Feel free to keep playing dumb and lying about this basic fact though! It's not like it's going to help your argument here.

    Anyone with two brain cells to rub together can already tell that you're wrong.
    You continue to make the racist mistake of thinking that Latino means "immigrant". Yes, the Latino population is increasing, but that doesn't mean that the population of native born americans is decreasing because, and hold on to your hat, many Latinos are native born americans.




    47% of Latinos do not believe that they are a part of the "typical" (i.e. "mainstream") American culture.
    No, "typical" does not mean mainstream, and neither means that they believe that they don't fit in, which is what you said.


    Yea, and? So what?

    There are over 50 million Latinos in the United States, only a little over 10 million are under the age of 18.

    What do you think this changes?

    For so long as immigration remains the major driving force behind Latino population growth, adults are going to remain the driving force behind Latino culture in the US.
    And one day it will be their fully assimilated children who will be the major driving force behind Latino culture and Latino population growth


    Again, so what? We're not talking about people who have been here for generations. We're talking about immigrants.

    If a person just moved to the United States from Columbia, they would not belong to a "native born" US cultural group. Frankly, neither would their children. They would be in the process of transition.

    It's as simple as that.
    No, you're talking about both Latinos and immigrants as if they both meant the same thing.
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    re: Your opinion on Coke's version of America The Beautiful? [W:1014]

    Quote Originally Posted by Sangha
    You continue to make the racist mistake of thinking that Latino means "immigrant". Yes, the Latino population is increasing, but that doesn't mean that the population of native born americans is decreasing because, and hold on to your hat, many Latinos are native born americans.
    Again, Sangha, I don't really care what you think about it.

    The answer is staring you right in the face regardless of whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

    There simply aren't enough Latino women having children out there to account for such a massive population increase using "native born" numbers alone. Most of that number is going to be due to immigrants bolstering the Latino community's numbers, or the first generation children of immigrants.

    None of those people count as being a part of an established "native" cultural group. Culturally speaking, they are alien from the American cultural mainstream, and, as my other source pointed out, roughly half of them regard themselves as such.

    No, "typical" does not mean mainstream, and neither means that they believe that they don't fit in, which is what you said.
    Yes, it most certainly does, on both counts.

    Again, Sangha, I don't know who you think you're fooling with all of this B.S. equivocation and semantic quibbling you're trying to pull out of your hindquarters here, but I can assure you that it certainly isn't me or anyone else with a functioning cerebellum.

    And one day it will be their fully assimilated children who will be the major driving force behind Latino culture and Latino population growth
    Not for so long as immigration continues to account for roughly 50% of Hispanic population growth rates.

    Again, first (and even second) generation immigrants really can't be said to be from "native" American cultural groups either.

    Americanization and assimilation take time; especially when you're talking about a group which can have a strong tendency to want to isolate itself from outside influences.

    if they ever come to form the majority in a given area, it might very well never occur at all. There simply wouldn't be a pressing reason for it.

    No, you're talking about both Latinos and immigrants as if they both meant the same thing.
    Because, by and large, they are.

    36% of Hispanic Latinos are foreign born, and most of the rest of them are either first or second generation.

    Unless they've become so Americanized as to have almost dropped their old ways entirely (which we have already pretty conclusively demonstrated is not the case a lot of the time), none of those people qualify as belonging to a "native" cultural group.

    This isn't a bad thing in and of itself, but it does demonstrate that native cultural groups are in relative decline in comparison to Latino cultural influences.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 02-07-14 at 01:34 AM.

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