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Your opinion on Coke's version of America The Beautiful? [W:1014]

Do You like this version of "America The Beautiful?"


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Eh. As I said before, in the long run, it might not even be all that bad a thing if the current "white culture" dies out or diminishes to the point of irrelevancy. It's kind of a train wreck, in case you haven't noticed, and the Latino community actually does tend to carry some cultural values that I'm rather fond of (Catholicism, family, the value of hard work, etca).

Have you checked out the rates for single-parenthood among Latino's in the U.S.? Or rates of dependency on government subsidies? The idea of the "naturally conservative" hispanic immigrants is largely a myth, dude.
 
I think what he meant is he can decide to not buy Coca Cola products.

Personally I think companies engaging in political statements is a mistake. Of a more obvious example are businesses that will put political candidates' signs in their window. If I don't support that candidate I won't shop there as my business indirectly supports that candidate. Another example is I won't stop at a Cracker Barrel after they threw piles of money into Republican Gerrymandering years ago.

As I said, we are all pretty powerless to do much of anything. We've created a monster of a gov that we can't get rid of.

I'm surprised some company hasn't gone partisan in their ads - figuring they might get 40% of the market given how strong partisan loyalties are.

Yeah...Mr. Thomas can boycott Coke all he wants and it will go on just like the crazy people running our government.

Religion has gone all out "big time" in making political statements. Corporations might as well jump in the band wagon.

And besides, Joko, if I can't mess with Mr. Thomas just a little bit each time I come into DP...my time spent is a total loss. Plus he feels better for it too. :lol: I need to frequently encourage him to get busy finding a gal and making babies. He may be America's last hope.
 
now only if you made sense or had something of worth to add we could have an interesting discussion. But, alas, simply braying accusations of bigotry seems so trite and uninteresting

now, if only I cared at all about your opinion
 
Have you checked out the rates for single-parenthood among Latino's in the U.S.? Or rates of dependency on government subsidies? The idea of the "naturally conservative" hispanic immigrants is largely a myth, dude.

True, but a lot of that has to do with the company they keep (as you said, cultural isolation and intermingling with the United States' other minority populations can have an impact in this regard), and their lower income status.

Latin American nations do tend to score a bit better with regard to divorce rates than the US or Western World in general, however; and many of them score better with regard to single motherhood as well. They do also tend to be more religious across the board.
 
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True, but a lot of that has to do with the company they keep (as you said, cultural isolation and intermingling with the United States' other minority populations can have an impact in this regard), and their lower income status.

Latin American nations do tend to score a bit better with regard to divorce rates than the US or Western World in general, however; and many of them score better with regard to single motherhood as well. They do also tend to be more religious across the board.

You are mistaking latin american countries with latin american immigrants to the United States.
 
You are mistaking latin american countries with latin american immigrants to the United States.

I acknowledge that. I was simply suggesting that if the United States were to become culturally more similar to those nations, it might not necessarily be a bad thing in many regards.

Don't get me wrong. Latin culture has its flaws like any other. However, it does have some legitimately attractive aspects as well.
 
I acknowledge that. I was simply suggesting that if the United States were to become culturally more similar to those nations, it might not necessarily be a bad thing in many regards.

except that we won't. We will be come more culturally similar to their underclass, because that is who is immigrating here.

It's like if we were to decide that instead we should focus on American culture, and that therefore we should all be Detroit.
 
I can provide dozens of sources showing that Latino immigration to the United States has been problematic.

NY Times

Only 15% of Latino adults say they speak English as their primary language.

IOW, 85% of all Latino adults speak English as their primary language.

Plus, once again you are confusing Latino with "immigrant". Many Latinos are native born Americans.


According to studies on the subject, only 23% of first generation immigrants speak English well, and more than 12% of second generation immigrants still struggle with it.

IOW, 88% of the children of immigrants speak English well

And you haven't shown that the # has changed over time.


On the flip side of that, more and more Americans are actually being forced to learn Spanish simply to get by.

Mandatory School Spanish Classes Anger Texas Parents

What is the future of Spanish in the United States?

And here we go, with your hysteria making you post all sorts of irrelevant info because you continually conflate everything together. Whether or not English speaking americans learn Spanish has nothing to do with the assimilation of Latinos.


Furthermore, a great many Latinos don't primarily identify themselves as being "American," but still primarily identify with their country of origin.

When Labels Don’t Fit: Hispanics and Their Views of Identity



Roughly half of them do not view themselves as being "typical Americans" either.



They also insist on clinging to the Spanish language once they arrive.

More info that is irrelevant to whether or not Latinos are assimilating.

Beyond even that, roughly two thirds of Mexican immigrants who are eligible for citizenship choose not to take it.

The Path Not Taken: Two-thirds of Legal Mexican Immigrants are not U.S. Citizens

Many of them also insist on clinging to national symbols of their old nations, like flags.

Yeah, we never see any other ethnicities doing that.

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I'm sorry, but the simple fact of the matter here is that these kinds of problems were virtually unheard of with previous waves of immigrants to this country.

Hell! They are unheard for current waves of non-Hispanic immigrants.

Yeah, we've never seen immigrants from other nations cleaving to symbols of their home country
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You are lying, as usual.

Again, the African American community is projected to remain more or less stagnant over the course of the next fifty years (growing in proportion from 13% of the overall population to 14%), while the white community is expected to decline (dropping from almost 70% of the overall population to 50% or less), while the Latino and Asian communities basically double in size due immigration (from a little over 10% to more than 20% and from 5% to 8%, respectively).

That is a net loss in proportional representation and relative size for the native population of the United States in relation to immigrant populations. 1% proportional population growth among the African American population does not counter a 20% proportional population decrease among the white population.

I see you're still clinging to the xenophobically racist notion that racial breakdowns demonstrate the proportion of native born americans versus immigrants.


This is simple mathematics, Sangha. Do try to keep up.

Simple logic would show you that "latino" doesn't mean "immigrant".
 
Well, feel free to ask him - does he think that "native born American" means "white people"? Or are you trying to paint someone you disagree with offensively in order to delegitimize opposition to your position?

For of all of your apologetics, Gath clings to his belief that the # of white people represents the # of "native born americans"


Clearly, because I never made a "mistake" in the first place. You have simply completely failed to understand my argument. :roll:
 
Dunno, Sangha. Mr. Thomas' source link was from Russia - so he must be right. Would Russian Journalists lie? :mrgreen: And besides, native populations are always...wait...native populations? Cowabunga, Dude! :shock: That some strong implication there.

True, but I think the bigger, and more revealing, point is that both Gath and cpwill believe that the # of white people is the same as the # of native born americans.

After all, how could a non-white person be american?
 
True. In my defense, however; I would point out that my original reason for posting in this thread revolved simply around expressing my opposition to the ideological message put forward by the Coca-Cola commercial in the OP.

That is something I actually can have some degree of control over. :lol:

The same goes for immigration policy.

The only "ideological" message that Coke put forward was "Buy our product"
 
True, but I think the bigger, and more revealing, point is that both Gath and cpwill believe that the # of white people is the same as the # of native born americans.

After all, how could a non-white person be american?

Holy smokes, I swear I feel like I'm watching Mean Girls.

 
The only "ideological" message that Coke put forward was "Buy our product"

Pretty much. It seemed like the ad was saying, "we don't care who you are, your money's good here!"
 
except that we won't. We will be come more culturally similar to their underclass, because that is who is immigrating here.

It's like if we were to decide that instead we should focus on American culture, and that therefore we should all be Detroit.

A fair point. However, ultimately only time will tell how they behave once they start to work their way up to the middle classes.

More people like Marco Rubio in the US would hardly be a bad thing.

Sangha said:
IOW, 85% of all Latino adults speak English as their primary language.

Plus, once again you are confusing Latino with "immigrant". Many Latinos are native born Americans.

The latino population in the US is expected to double in the next fifty years, Sangha. Their birth rates are not appreciably higher than the rest of the population.

This means that most of that growth is coming from immigration. As such, most of the Latinos in the United States are going to be either immigrants, or the first or second generation descendants of them.

This is already the case today.

Majority of Hispanic Children in United States Have Immigrant Parents

As our immigrant population continues to grow, so too will the population of the first and second generation children of immigrants. This will exponentially decrease the necessity of new arrivals learning English or having to adopt existing American cultural norms in the first place.

Whether or not English speaking americans learn Spanish has nothing to do with the assimilation of Latinos.

No, it means that they are assimilating us.

Did Americans rush out to learn Italian or German when the last waves of immigrants arrived? :roll:

More info that is irrelevant to whether or not Latinos are assimilating.

Half of Latinos not believing themselves to fit into mainstream American culture isn't a sign of problems with assimilation? :screwy

Yeah, we never see any other ethnicities doing that.

Yeah, we've never seen immigrants from other nations cleaving to symbols of their home country

Yea, that's cute... If your family has already been here for 100 years or more and its damn clear that you'd never consider yourself as being anything other than an American.

When you've just arrived, barely speak the language, and haven't filed for citizenship? Ehhh... Not so much.

I see you're still clinging to the xenophobically racist notion that racial breakdowns demonstrate the proportion of native born americans versus immigrants.

Again, because in Sangha land, a clear demonstration of the fact that native cultural groups are in decline while immigrant and first or second generation populations from an alien culture explode means absolutely nothing. :roll:

Simple logic would show you that "latino" doesn't mean "immigrant".

Simple logic would dictate that the act of merely living somewhere doesn't make a person an assimilated member of that area's culture.
 
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Sangha said:
For of all of your apologetics, Gath clings to his belief that the # of white people represents the # of "native born americans"

Sangha said:
True, but I think the bigger, and more revealing, point is that both Gath and cpwill believe that the # of white people is the same as the # of native born americans.

After all, how could a non-white person be american?

Predictably, you continue to lie, race bait, and blatantly misrepresent our positions as you have nothing else to offer.

Sangha said:
The only "ideological" message that Coke put forward was "Buy our product"

By hawking a political message which simply happened to be nauseatingly politically correct.

I'm sure that was just a coincidence. :roll:
 
The latino population in the US is expected to double in the next fifty years, Sangha. Their birth rates are not appreciably higher than the rest of the population.

This means that most of that growth is coming from immigration. As such, most of the Latinos in the United States are going to be either immigrants, or the first or second generation descendants of them.

Nope. you're making stuff up. You have posted nothing to show that most of the Latinos in the US are going to be immigrants and are not going to assimilate

Half of Latinos not believing themselves to fit into mainstream American culture isn't a sign of problems with assimilation? :screwy

You're making up #'s again. Half of Latinos did not say they don't fit into mainstream American culture.



Yea, that's cute... If your family already been here for 100 years or more.

When you've just arrived, barely speak the language, and haven't filed for citizenship? Ehhh... Not so much.

85% of all Latinos speak English as their primary language.



Again, because in Sangha land, a clear demonstration of the fact that native cultural groups are in decline while immigrant and first or second generation populations from an alien culture explode means absolutely nothing. :roll:

You have not shown that "native cultural groups" are in decline, and Latinos have been an American cultural group since long before your ancestors became an american cultural group.




Simple logic would dictate that the act of merely living somewhere doesn't make a person an assimilated member of that area's culture.

Simple logic would show you that "latino" doesn't mean "immigrant".
 
Predictably, you continue to lie, race bait, and blatantly misrepresent our positions as you have nothing else to offer.



By hawking a political message which simply happened to be nauseatingly politically correct.

I'm sure that was just a coincidence. :roll:

Mr. Thomas...you don't at all see that ad as a money making ploy? I do get the MC under tone, but I see coke seizing an opportunity. Cultural / race issue are hot issues. They're just pouring out the love. :mrgreen:
 
Nope. you're making stuff up. You have posted nothing to show that most of the Latinos in the US are going to be immigrants and are not going to assimilate

Black and Hispanic fertility rates are very nearly the same. The portion of our population made up by African Americans will only increase by 1% in the next 50 years. The Hispanic portion will double.

You tell me, Sangha. Where are all those extra people coming from, if not immigration? :roll:

You're making up #'s again. Half of Latinos did not say they don't fit into mainstream American culture.

They absolutely do.

When Labels Don’t Fit: Hispanics and Their Views of Identity

◾Latinos are split on whether they see themselves as a typical American. Nearly half (47%) say they are a typical American, while another 47% say they are very different from the typical American. Foreign-born Hispanics are less likely than native-born Hispanics to say they are a typical American—34% versus 66%.

Ignoring black and white figures placed directly under your nose isn't going to make them go away, Sangha.

85% of all Latinos speak English as their primary language.

Nope. 15% do.

NY Times

Even as many Latinos learn English, they continue to retain and use Spanish. According to the report, 44 percent of Latino adults, whether born abroad or in the United States, said they were bilingual, while 41 percent said they spoke mainly Spanish. Only 15 percent of Latino adults said they were “largely English speakers."

Again, these numbers aren't going to go away simply because you do not like them.

You have not shown that "native cultural groups" are in decline, and Latinos have been an American cultural group since long before your ancestors became an american cultural group.

Are you really trying to claim that immigrants and the first generation children of immigrants could be considered to belong to the "native culture" of a nation?

You might want to reconsider that statement. :lol:

Simple logic would show you that "latino" doesn't mean "immigrant".

Except for when they are immigrants, or the children of them. :roll:
 
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again, if the complaint is that people are participating in a discussion simply initiated by coke, then you're really not "boycotting" anything by participating in that discussion. Even if your participation is ironically limited to you cooing about how you're above participating in it

Maybe if you would stop nitpicking over every little thing I said because of some need to be right, I could exit the discussion already. :roll:
 
Black and Hispanic fertility rates are very nearly the same. The portion of our population made up by African Americans will only increase by 1% in the next 50 years. The Hispanic portion will double.

You tell me, Sangha. Where are all those extra people coming from, if not immigration? :roll:

Native born Latinos, of course!

But you don't seem to understand that Latinos can be american too.

They absolutely do.

When Labels Don’t Fit: Hispanics and Their Views of Identity



Ignoring black and white figures placed directly under your nose isn't going to make them go away, Sangha.

They absolutely do not. The quote does not say what you think it says.



Nope. That # only applies to adults.

Are you really trying to claim that immigrants and the first generation children of immigrants could be considered to belong to the "native culture" of a nation?

You might want to reconsider that statement. :lol:

I am claiming that Latinos have been a part of american culture since there was an american culture. Some latino families have been in the US for longer than your family has.

Except for when they are immigrants, or the children of them. :roll:

Umm, no. The children of immigrants are not immigrants if they were born in the US.

And latino does not mean immigrant.

PS - white means immigrant when they are immigrants.

You just can't let go of the delusion that latinos are not american. In your head, it is just impossible for latinos to be american.
 
Sure i guess. I could really care less. Oh my god they sang a song in different languages! Get the **** over yourselves.
 
Sangha said:
Native born Latinos, of course!

Bad_Math_(2%2B2%3D5)_Wallpaper_i7wo4.jpg


Okay, so math apparently isn't your strong suit. :roll:

Let's try this again.

Both groups have more or less the same birth rate, but one is expected to double in overall population proportion, whereas the other will remain more or less stagnant.

Clearly, the people making up the difference in this equation are not simply materializing out of thin air, so they must be coming from some other source. As birthrate has already been accounted for, the only other source available is immigration.

Ergo, immigration is the answer to the question of why the Latino population is going to see massive population growth, where the African American population will not.

Feel free to keep playing dumb and lying about this basic fact though! It's not like it's going to help your argument here.

Anyone with two brain cells to rub together can already tell that you're wrong. ;)

They absolutely do not. The quote does not say what you think it says.

47% of Latinos do not believe that they are a part of the "typical" (i.e. "mainstream") American culture.

Again, it doesn't matter if you are honest enough to admit that to your argument's short comings here. Anyone who reads the damn quotation can already tell that you're wrong.

When Labels Don’t Fit: Hispanics and Their Views of Identity

◾Latinos are split on whether they see themselves as a typical American. Nearly half (47%) say they are a typical American, while another 47% say they are very different from the typical American. Foreign-born Hispanics are less likely than native-born Hispanics to say they are a typical American—34% versus 66%.

Who do you think you're fooling, exactly? It certainly isn't me, or anyone else capable of looking at this issue in a logical manner.

Nope. That # only applies to adults.

Yea, and? So what? :lol:

There are over 50 million Latinos in the United States, only a little over 10 million are under the age of 18.

What do you think this changes?

For so long as immigration remains the major driving force behind Latino population growth, adults are going to remain the driving force behind Latino culture in the US.

I am claiming that Latinos have been a part of american culture since there was an american culture. Some latino families have been in the US for longer than your family has.

Again, so what? We're not talking about people who have been here for generations. We're talking about immigrants.

If a person just moved to the United States from Columbia, they would not belong to a "native born" US cultural group. Frankly, neither would their children. They would be in the process of transition.

It's as simple as that.

Umm, no. The children of immigrants are not immigrants if they were born in the US.

And latino does not mean immigrant.

PS - white means immigrant when they are immigrants.

You just can't let go of the delusion that latinos are not american. In your head, it is just impossible for latinos to be american.

Strawman.jpg
 
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Bad_Math_(2%2B2%3D5)_Wallpaper_i7wo4.jpg


Okay, so math apparently isn't your strong suit. :roll:

Let's try this again.

Both groups have more or less the same birth rate, but one is expected to double in overall population proportion, whereas the other will remain more or less stagnant.

Clearly, the people making up the difference in this equation are not simply materializing out of thin air, so they must be coming from some other source. As birthrate has already been accounted for, the only other source available is immigration.

Ergo, immigration is the answer to the question of why the Latino population is going to see massive population growth, where the African American population will not.

Feel free to keep playing dumb and lying about this basic fact though! It's not like it's going to help your argument here.

Anyone with two brain cells to rub together can already tell that you're wrong. ;)

You continue to make the racist mistake of thinking that Latino means "immigrant". Yes, the Latino population is increasing, but that doesn't mean that the population of native born americans is decreasing because, and hold on to your hat, many Latinos are native born americans.




47% of Latinos do not believe that they are a part of the "typical" (i.e. "mainstream") American culture.

No, "typical" does not mean mainstream, and neither means that they believe that they don't fit in, which is what you said.


Yea, and? So what? :lol:

There are over 50 million Latinos in the United States, only a little over 10 million are under the age of 18.

What do you think this changes?

For so long as immigration remains the major driving force behind Latino population growth, adults are going to remain the driving force behind Latino culture in the US.

And one day it will be their fully assimilated children who will be the major driving force behind Latino culture and Latino population growth


Again, so what? We're not talking about people who have been here for generations. We're talking about immigrants.

If a person just moved to the United States from Columbia, they would not belong to a "native born" US cultural group. Frankly, neither would their children. They would be in the process of transition.

It's as simple as that.

No, you're talking about both Latinos and immigrants as if they both meant the same thing.
 
Sangha said:
You continue to make the racist mistake of thinking that Latino means "immigrant". Yes, the Latino population is increasing, but that doesn't mean that the population of native born americans is decreasing because, and hold on to your hat, many Latinos are native born americans.

Again, Sangha, I don't really care what you think about it.

The answer is staring you right in the face regardless of whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

There simply aren't enough Latino women having children out there to account for such a massive population increase using "native born" numbers alone. Most of that number is going to be due to immigrants bolstering the Latino community's numbers, or the first generation children of immigrants.

None of those people count as being a part of an established "native" cultural group. Culturally speaking, they are alien from the American cultural mainstream, and, as my other source pointed out, roughly half of them regard themselves as such.

No, "typical" does not mean mainstream, and neither means that they believe that they don't fit in, which is what you said.

Yes, it most certainly does, on both counts.

Again, Sangha, I don't know who you think you're fooling with all of this B.S. equivocation and semantic quibbling you're trying to pull out of your hindquarters here, but I can assure you that it certainly isn't me or anyone else with a functioning cerebellum. :lol:

And one day it will be their fully assimilated children who will be the major driving force behind Latino culture and Latino population growth

Not for so long as immigration continues to account for roughly 50% of Hispanic population growth rates. :roll:

Again, first (and even second) generation immigrants really can't be said to be from "native" American cultural groups either.

Americanization and assimilation take time; especially when you're talking about a group which can have a strong tendency to want to isolate itself from outside influences.

if they ever come to form the majority in a given area, it might very well never occur at all. There simply wouldn't be a pressing reason for it.

No, you're talking about both Latinos and immigrants as if they both meant the same thing.

Because, by and large, they are.

36% of Hispanic Latinos are foreign born, and most of the rest of them are either first or second generation.

Unless they've become so Americanized as to have almost dropped their old ways entirely (which we have already pretty conclusively demonstrated is not the case a lot of the time), none of those people qualify as belonging to a "native" cultural group.

This isn't a bad thing in and of itself, but it does demonstrate that native cultural groups are in relative decline in comparison to Latino cultural influences.
 
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