View Poll Results: Do You like this version of "America The Beautiful?"

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    73 57.48%
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    38 29.92%
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Thread: Your opinion on Coke's version of America The Beautiful? [W:1014]

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    Re: Your opinion on Coke's version of America The Beautiful? [W:1014]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    It depends on what they're isolated from. Being isolated from their home country would aid assimilation.
    this really makes me wonder if you even read what you respond to: I was quite that the chinese you mentioned were more isolated from their homeland and each other than modern Mexican immigrants.

    Having govt forms in their language
    I specifically highlighted their lower education rates, more concentrated numbers, and settling patterns, and failure to economically assimilate compared to past individuals, in addition to measures taken to make the state more accessible to non-english speaker. Not sure why you would ignore all those and try to reduce the later to bilingual forms

    I'd love to hear the evidence you think demonstrates that Latinos are not assimilating and the ways in which they aren't assimilating, particularly with respect to american culture (as opposed to simply learning english)
    I already cited data indicating that new populations were failing to integrate compared to past populations. In fact, I even provided the link in the very post you just quoted. But here it is again:


    http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1062885219

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    Re: Your opinion on Coke's version of America The Beautiful? [W:1014]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    All around the US, and overseas but no Asia (with the exception of Thailand when I was younger) or Africa.
    Again, where?



    No, what has been argued is that there is no one set of cultural practices that is *the* norm for american culture and that, as a result, there are areas in the US where culture varies greatly.
    Regionalized variations in culture exist anywhere. India is a particularly vibrant example, but surely that wouldn't lead anyone to claim that there does not exist an "indian culture"


    Gath has described many Latinos as unwilling to assimilate.
    Why do you feel the need to constantly engage in dishonesty? The post I responded to, and what you wrote earlier, was " that foreigners are incapable or unwilling to take part of".

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    Re: Your opinion on Coke's version of America The Beautiful? [W:1014]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    this really makes me wonder if you even read what you respond to: I was quite that the chinese you mentioned were more isolated from their homeland and each other than modern Mexican immigrants.
    They were isolated from China, but not from each other. They were living together in either ghettos or work camps.

    I specifically highlighted their lower education rates, more concentrated numbers, and settling patterns, and failure to economically assimilate compared to past individuals, in addition to measures taken to make the state more accessible to non-english speaker. Not sure why you would ignore all those and try to reduce the later to bilingual forms
    Because the facts argue against your claims about lower education. As the following shows, Latinos (like other immigrant groups) close the gap in succeeding generations. Your claim was based on stats that were limited to first generation immigrants.

    http://www.stanford.edu/group/scspi/...mmigration.pdf



    I already cited data indicating that new populations were failing to integrate compared to past populations. In fact, I even provided the link in the very post you just quoted. But here it is again:


    http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1062885219
    Your link talks only about the first generation. My link shows what happens with succeeding generations.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Your opinion on Coke's version of America The Beautiful? [W:1014]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    Regionalized variations in culture exist anywhere. India is a particularly vibrant example, but surely that wouldn't lead anyone to claim that there does not exist an "indian culture"
    And again, no one has argued that there is no american culture. What has been argued is that there is no one set of values and practices that is the definition of that - an argument that has been used to portray our culture as having no Latino influence.





    Why do you feel the need to constantly engage in dishonesty? The post I responded to, and what you wrote earlier, was " that foreigners are incapable or unwilling to take part of".
    And as I just pointed out, Gath has argued that many Latinos are unwilling to assimilate.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Your opinion on Coke's version of America The Beautiful? [W:1014]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    They were isolated from China, but not from each other. They were living together in either ghettos or work camps.
    I literally addressed this when the discussion started: Yes, there were isolated communities like china towns. But the china towns were very few. With mexican immigrants we have a wide spread, but still concentrated settling pattern that stems from the mexican border across the South and western parts of the state.

    Your link talks only about the first generation. My link shows what happens with succeeding generations.
    Do you even read or think about what you are responding to? Your paper is talking about successive generations from higher educated immigrant groups. Recent immagrant groups, as is outlined in the dat I provided, are less educated now, and they are failing to perform better than past populations, like the parents of the groups your paper is talking about. This means the current group of immigrants will have successive generations that perform below that threshold. Since economic assimilation is directly tied to the education and earning potential of their parents

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    Re: Your opinion on Coke's version of America The Beautiful? [W:1014]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    I literally addressed this when the discussion started: Yes, there were isolated communities like china towns. But the china towns were very few. With mexican immigrants we have a wide spread, but still concentrated settling pattern that stems from the mexican border across the South and western parts of the state.
    No, you've only addressed half of what I said. I said they were either in ghettos *or* lived together in work camps. IOW, your claim that they were isolated from each other has no substantiation.


    Do you even read or think about what you are responding to? Your paper is talking about successive generations from higher educated immigrant groups. Recent immagrant groups, as is outlined in the dat I provided, are less educated now, and they are failing to perform better than past populations, like the parents of the groups your paper is talking about. This means the current group of immigrants will have successive generations that perform below that threshold. Since economic assimilation is directly tied to the education and earning potential of their parents
    As the paper I posted shows, the gaps decreases with succeeding generations. Your claim that "he current group of immigrants will have successive generations that perform below that threshold" is completely contradicted by my link.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Your opinion on Coke's version of America The Beautiful? [W:1014]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    No, you've only addressed half of what I said. I said they were either in ghettos *or* lived together in work camps. IOW, your claim that they were isolated from each other has no substantiation.
    The only way you can come to that conclusion is if you are completely dishonest or simply ignore what I wrote: I acknowledged they lived in isloated communities. Where I stated they were different is the number of such communities and how widespread they were


    As the paper I posted shows, the gaps decreases with succeeding generations. Your claim that "he current group of immigrants will have successive generations that perform below that threshold" is completely contradicted by my link.
    Again, read what you respond to: I pointed to the fact that that generational shift is directly dependent on the education level and earning potential of the parents. Then pointed out that modern mexican immigrants are less educated and earn less than past mexican immigrants. Thus, the speed and proficiency that they assimilate will be lower and slower.

    No where did I disagree with the idea that the gap decreases.

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    Re: Your opinion on Coke's version of America The Beautiful? [W:1014]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    The only way you can come to that conclusion is if you are completely dishonest or simply ignore what I wrote: I acknowledged they lived in isloated communities. Where I stated they were different is the number of such communities and how widespread they were
    I disputed your claim that Chinese immigrants lived apart from each other. They did not.



    Again, read what you respond to: I pointed to the fact that that generational shift is directly dependent on the education level and earning potential of the parents. Then pointed out that modern mexican immigrants are less educated and earn less than past mexican immigrants. Thus, the speed and proficiency that they assimilate will be lower and slower.
    Again, read what I responded with: The study points out that the gaps close with each succeeding generation.

    Remember that the argument you jumped into the middle with included the claim that the lack of assimilation (which doesn't exist) was going to result in American culture being displaced by Latino culture. The fact that successive generations do assimilate (even if at a slower rate) means that the cumulative effects of Latino immigration, which supposedly will lead to this displacement, will not occur.

    It looks like, once again, you're obsessing over some perceived problem with some minor point (ex the starting point for Latino immigrants) in order to avoid discussing the larger issue, which is the absurd claim that Latino culture will displace American culture.

    No where did I disagree with the idea that the gap decreases.
    In which case, I hope you can see past whatever quibbles you have and see how inane it is to claim that Latino culture will replace American culture since Latinos are assimilating (though it may happen at a slower pace than it has in the past)
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Your opinion on Coke's version of America The Beautiful? [W:1014]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I disputed your claim that Chinese immigrants lived apart from each other. They did not.
    This was never claimed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    They were more isolated than current mexican populations. Not only do they have easier access to mexico, but demographics spread out from the border and communities exist across the region. "chinatowns" were limited to a few major cities and they did not have easy access to china

    Again, read what I responded with: The study points out that the gaps close with each succeeding generation.
    Yes, I did read it. It's why I directly addressed the claim and pointed out such assimilation is dependent on the education level and earning potential of the parents, and when they are low, such assimilation occurs at a slower rate

    Now this is the third time I have explained this clearly. So you might want to stop ignoring it.


    Remember that the argument you jumped into the middle with included the claim that the lack of assimilation (which doesn't exist) was going to result in American culture being displaced by Latino culture. The fact that successive generations do assimilate (even if at a slower rate) means that the cumulative effects of Latino immigration, which supposedly will lead to this displacement, will not occur.
    1) Ugh, so you're saying that these immigrants being poor and uneducated and producing more poor and uneducated children doesn't speak to the merits of tighter controls on their immigration?

    2) No, actually you were arguing the assimilation patterns should be the same as the past.

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Immigrants today, with just a few minor exceptions, face most of the same pressures to assimilate and throughout american history millions of Latinos have done just that

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    Re: Your opinion on Coke's version of America The Beautiful? [W:1014]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    This was never claimed.
    It's possible I misunderstand, and if so, my bad. However, if they did live with each other then that would help them not assimilate and yet, they did assimilate. IOW, I don't see how their example argues for or against the idea that Latinos are not going to assimilate.

    Yes, I did read it. It's why I directly addressed the claim and pointed out such assimilation is dependent on the education level and earning potential of the parents, and when they are low, such assimilation occurs at a slower rate

    Now this is the third time I have explained this clearly. So you might want to stop ignoring it.
    And I still don't see how that argues in favor of the idea that american culture is in danger of being displaced by Latino culture.

    It seems that, once again, you're obsessing over some niggling notion (the unproven idea that Latinos will assimilate at a slower rate than they have in the past) which has no bearing on the main thrust of the discussion that was taking place (which was Gath's inane idea that American culture is somehow threatened by Latino immigrants)


    1) Ugh, so you're saying that these immigrants being poor and uneducated and producing more poor and uneducated children doesn't speak to the merits of tighter controls on their immigration?

    2) No, actually you were arguing the assimilation patterns should be the same as the past.
    Since I never said either of those things, it's obvious you're just raising straw men in order to avoid discussing the main point of contention that Gath and I have been debating.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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