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My immigration reform plan

Do you support this plan?

  • Yes

    Votes: 3 10.0%

  • No

    Votes: 27 90.0%
  • Total voters
    30
Zyphlin said:
Couple of questions...

What happens if said immigrant refuses to fill out the paperwork? Is there a cut off for this? IE, many people wait in their home country and go through the proper channels, taking quite some time in some circumstances, waiting for the proper approval to even come over here into the US? Will people who just waltz in during that time and go "Give me the paperwork" able to just bypass that? Additionally, to my understanding there are financial issues regarding immigration. Will those here in this country have to deal with that, or not? And if so...what happens if they can't or won't pay it? Finally, I see no suggestions of any kind of negative action towards those here, so if I understand you correctly you're suggestion would be granting all those who have broken the law full amnesty, with their violations being entirely forgiven?

I thank you for sharing your immigration plan and I think there are parts of it I agree with...but by and large there's no way I would be able to support your plan
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They would be forced to fill out the paperwork. They wouldn't be kicked out while the paperwork is waiting approval. There will be no fine, either, because the amount of money saved over the long term by incorporating these people in society will probably make it worth it.

The 12+ million illegals currently in the US will never be deported. Many of you are going to have to give up this fantasy where the government hunts down 12 million people and kicks them out of the country. The illegals are here to stay, and there is nothing you can do about it.
 
Voltaire X said:
They would be forced to fill out the paperwork. They wouldn't be kicked out while the paperwork is waiting approval. There will be no fine, either, because the amount of money saved over the long term by incorporating these people in society will probably make it worth it.

The 12+ million illegals currently in the US will never be deported. Many of you are going to have to give up this fantasy where the government hunts down 12 million people and kicks them out of the country. The illegals are here to stay, and there is nothing you can do about it.
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Your plan wouldn't work, heck, it didn't work last time when Reagan tried it.

As to that last, you're wrong. There is something we can do about it, what we have been doing. Every time some idiot politician, either party, stumps for amnesty we put their re-election hopes in jeopardy. That always swings enough of them around to quash the effort. And please, drop the debunked framing of the issue. No one has suggested hunting them down. What we have been saying is that we deport them when we catch them - no exceptions. That we make services unavailable to them so they have no other choice than to self-deport.
 
clownboy said:
Your plan wouldn't work, heck, it didn't work last time when Reagan tried it.

As to that last, you're wrong. There is something we can do about it, what we have been doing. Every time some idiot politician, either party, stumps for amnesty we put their re-election hopes in jeopardy. That always swings enough of them around to quash the effort. And please, drop the debunked framing of the issue. No one has suggested hunting them down. What we have been saying is that we deport them when we catch them - no exceptions. That we make services unavailable to them so they have no other choice than to self-deport.
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Does denying them services include denying them access to medical treatment? What about their children (who are also illegal immigrants, the "dreamers")? Should they get educational benefits?
 
Voltaire X said:
Does denying them services include denying them access to medical treatment? What about their children (who are also illegal immigrants, the "dreamers")? Should they get educational benefits?
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I'm fine with them getting emergency medical treatment, so long as they are turned over to immigration for a fast trip back across the border thereafter. No, I don't want illegal immigrants getting access to free education. If the children were born here and are thus citizens, fine, but again, I think that should entitle the parents to a quick boot in the seat of the pants across the border.
 
Voltaire X said:
1) Every illegal immigrant in the US will fill out a piece of paperwork giving their name, DOB, etc.

2) Upon filling out the paperwork, they will be automatically enrolled in the current line to become a US citizen, and they will be granted permanent legal status until they become US citizens (providing they commit no serious felonies)

3) There will be no new citizenship line created; the current illegals will be sent to the back of the current line to become a US citizen. If this line needs to be sped up, it will be sped up. However, the illegals do not need to go back to their home country or anything; they just need to fill out a piece of paperwork.

4) If the INS finds them and finds out they haven't filled out the paperwork, they will be given the paperwork and instructed to fill it out. No one will be deported for filling out the paperwork.
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Your solution only encourages more illegal immigration it doesn't stop or even slow it down.Your solution amounts to pouring gas on a fire and expecting it to be put out.


Here is what the solution should be.



1.Crack down on the scum who hire illegals.Treat them no different than we do drug dealers and other criminals who profit from and or use their money for illegal activities.

2. In order to get any ID or driver's license you present a birth certificate( in rare cases a non-availability birth certificate where it has been investigated that the individual was born in the US), green card, or certificate of naturalization and social security card.After that require a state issued ID or driver's license in order to the following-

-enroll yourself into school
-enroll your minor kids into school
-apply for welfare,food stamps,section 8 housing and any other tax payer assistance for yourself and or your children
-get a business license,fishing/hunting permit,building permit, license to practice law, food handlers permit, gun license(in states that require a permit to buy a gun),concealed carry permit(in states that require a license to conceal carry) or any other tax payer funded service
-open a bank account, cash a check, use a credit/debit/pre-paid card, apply for a loan,or wire money.
-rent,borrow,lease or buy property
-rent,borrow,lease or buy a motor vehicle.
-get legal documents for yourself or your children.
-get utilities
​

3.Mandate E-verify for every employer.

4.Repeal part of the immigration and nationality act of 1965 that allows for the chain migration of relatives other than spouse or minor children.This would virtually eliminate anchor babies.







Seeing how many of these people here illegally came her on a visa and let it expire we should also cut off visas to citizens of countries we have the most illegal immigration problems with until those numbers go down.
 
Deport them or make them pay very very very hefty fines (100k+) and all back taxes for income earned during their criminal stay in the US. Also, put them at the back of the list. Their employers should also face extremely hefty fines.
 
Cephus said:
I heard on the radio a while back that a survey in Mexico suggested that upwards of 70% of Mexicans would cross the border illegally into the U.S. if they thought they could make it and not get caught. 70%.
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Let them in an intelligent and gradual way, support the immigration with well constructed educational measures and nobody need worry about the demographic problem.
 
joG said:
Let them in an intelligent and gradual way, support the immigration with well constructed educational measures and nobody need worry about the demographic problem.
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Why would we let them in if they do nothing positive for us? Why is there this entitlement-happy belief that people get to go where they want to go whether we want them to or not?
 
Cephus said:
Why would we let them in if they do nothing positive for us? Why is there this entitlement-happy belief that people get to go where they want to go whether we want them to or not?
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Why be stupido?
Collect taxes!
Grab the social security payments!
Live happily ever after!
 
joG said:
Why be stupido?
Collect taxes!
Grab the social security payments!
Live happily ever after!
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We've got way too many stupid, uneducated, entitlement-happy people already, we don't need any more.
 
Cephus said:
We've got way too many stupid, uneducated, entitlement-happy people already, we don't need any more.
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Then train ' em on the job. Where's the prob?
 
Voltaire X said:
1) Every illegal immigrant in the US will fill out a piece of paperwork giving their name, DOB, etc.

2) Upon filling out the paperwork, they will be automatically enrolled in the current line to become a US citizen, and they will be granted permanent legal status until they become US citizens (providing they commit no serious felonies)

3) There will be no new citizenship line created; the current illegals will be sent to the back of the current line to become a US citizen. If this line needs to be sped up, it will be sped up. However, the illegals do not need to go back to their home country or anything; they just need to fill out a piece of paperwork.

4) If the INS finds them and finds out they haven't filled out the paperwork, they will be given the paperwork and instructed to fill it out. No one will be deported for filling out the paperwork.
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We don't NEED reform. We need to actually enforce the laws we already have. If we did, there would be no illegal immigration problem to reform.
 
joG said:
Then train ' em on the job. Where's the prob?
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A lot of them don't want jobs. They want government checks.
 
Cephus said:
A lot of them don't want jobs. They want government checks.
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Can you back that up with numbers? I'd be very interested.
 
Here's my plan. Every time you catch an illegal coming into the US or when you catch one already here you put a big red X tattoo on their forehead and deport them and then make it illegal to hire anyone with a big red X on their forehead. Problem solved. Of course this would mean at all traffic violations etc you checked for proper documentation and a had a huge fine or even imprisonment for anyone that hires an X.
 
joG said:
Can you back that up with numbers? I'd be very interested.
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While it's hard to get information specifically on illegal immigrants because, obviously, they're not very open to providing data, immigrants, both legal and illegal, tend to use welfare at a rate much higher than native-born citizens, 57% vs. 39%.

https://cis.org/immigrant-welfare-use-2011
 
Voltaire X said:
Does denying them services include denying them access to medical treatment? What about their children (who are also illegal immigrants, the "dreamers")? Should they get educational benefits?
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Yes, except for emergency treatment. In the case of emergency treatment, stabilize and deport them. Their children that are born here, the parents have an option, adopt them out to folks here and be deported or take the children with them. The born here variety may return on their 18th birthday once they make their citizenship choice.

And no, no educational benefits for illegals or their children. The red herring argument that says we're better off with educated vs uneducated ILLEGAL aliens is nonsense. We're better off without them period.
 
Cephus said:
While it's hard to get information specifically on illegal immigrants because, obviously, they're not very open to providing data, immigrants, both legal and illegal, tend to use welfare at a rate much higher than native-born citizens, 57% vs. 39%.

https://cis.org/immigrant-welfare-use-2011
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That would be high even considering that 2009 would have been a bad year for new immigrants. Recession hits them first. That has always been the case, but what has changed is that we now pay social security. Get rid of it and the problem evaporates. Pay every American a variation of a negative income tax and we even get rid of the bureaucracy.
 
joG said:
That would be high even considering that 2009 would have been a bad year for new immigrants. Recession hits them first. That has always been the case, but what has changed is that we now pay social security. Get rid of it and the problem evaporates. Pay every American a variation of a negative income tax and we even get rid of the bureaucracy.
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Yeah, get rid of social security so illegal aliens will do better when here. Good luck with that argument, you're gonna need it. :lamo
 
clownboy said:
Yeah, get rid of social security so illegal aliens will do better when here. Good luck with that argument, you're gonna need it. :lamo
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Did you read the comment to the end?
 
joG said:
That would be high even considering that 2009 would have been a bad year for new immigrants. Recession hits them first. That has always been the case, but what has changed is that we now pay social security. Get rid of it and the problem evaporates. Pay every American a variation of a negative income tax and we even get rid of the bureaucracy.
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Ah, always searching for ways to spin reality so it supports your unsupportable assertions. 2009 was not unusual, these trends are consistent every year I've seen.
 
clownboy said:
Yes, except for emergency treatment. In the case of emergency treatment, stabilize and deport them. Their children that are born here, the parents have an option, adopt them out to folks here and be deported or take the children with them. The born here variety may return on their 18th birthday once they make their citizenship choice.

And no, no educational benefits for illegals or their children. The red herring argument that says we're better off with educated vs uneducated ILLEGAL aliens is nonsense. We're better off without them period.
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Well they are here to stay. That's what people won't accept. You guys don't realize that moving 11 million people out of the US would be a larger forced migration than every single Native American that was forcefully relocated in the history of the United States combined. There is no possible way that the illegals are going back to Mexico. Sorry to break that to you, but you better get that fantasy out of your head now or you'll just keep leading yourself on to an inevitable disappointment. And if they are going to stay here, I'd rather have an educated populace than an ignorant one. Even if you think about it from a selfish perspective it makes sense; the more years of schooling one has had, the less likely one is to commit crimes. Plus they will be forced to learn English if they are put into the public school system.
 
Voltaire X said:
Well they are here to stay. That's what people won't accept. You guys don't realize that moving 11 million people out of the US would be a larger forced migration than every single Native American that was forcefully relocated in the history of the United States combined. There is no possible way that the illegals are going back to Mexico. Sorry to break that to you, but you better get that fantasy out of your head now or you'll just keep leading yourself on to an inevitable disappointment. And if they are going to stay here, I'd rather have an educated populace than an ignorant one. Even if you think about it from a selfish perspective it makes sense; the more years of schooling one has had, the less likely one is to commit crimes. Plus they will be forced to learn English if they are put into the public school system.
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sigh...

There's that old scare meme about moving X million people.

We wouldn't NEED to move them. They would move themselves if we only enforced the laws on the books and stopped giving the illegal aliens breaks. It's as simple as that.

Besides...the more we fail to enforce our laws, the more will come and the more we'll end up accepting and supporting.
 
Voltaire X said:
1) Every illegal immigrant in the US will fill out a piece of paperwork giving their name, DOB, etc.

2) Upon filling out the paperwork, they will be automatically enrolled in the current line to become a US citizen, and they will be granted permanent legal status until they become US citizens (providing they commit no serious felonies)

3) There will be no new citizenship line created; the current illegals will be sent to the back of the current line to become a US citizen. If this line needs to be sped up, it will be sped up. However, the illegals do not need to go back to their home country or anything; they just need to fill out a piece of paperwork.

4) If the INS finds them and finds out they haven't filled out the paperwork, they will be given the paperwork and instructed to fill it out. No one will be deported for filling out the paperwork.
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You are either a national security risk or a organized crime boss.

BTW: There's no longer an INS, it's been replaced with ICE that has second rate incompetent people in charge right now who refuse to enforce the laws that are already are on the books. If they refuse to do their job now what makes you think they would with this amnesty of yours that awards criminality ?
 
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