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Do you believe in seat belt laws for consenting adults?

Do you believe in seat belt laws?

  • Total voters
    99
  • Poll closed .
scatt said:
You made a post proving seatbelts stop human body projectiles?
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Enought!

You are obviously some 15 year old troll who sees his purpose here in annoying people.

You are incapable of participating in a debate in a civilised manner.

And you rephrase whatever I post and generaly seem to be incapable of answering questions.


There is no point whatsoever in having anykind of exchange of words with such an uncivilised savage.

Go play in the swamp.
 
The German said:
Why didn`t you ask for those in the first place?

Verkehr - Verkehrs- und Unfallstatistiken, Überblick

Verkehr - Verkehrs- und Unfallstatistiken, Spezifische Probleme

Verkehr - Verkehrs- und Unfallstatistiken, Verkehrsteilnahme

Verkehr - Verkehrs- und Unfallstatistiken, Ortslagen

Verkehr - Verkehrs- und Unfallstatistiken, Altersgruppen

Verkehr - Verkehrs- und Unfallstatistiken, Unfallgeschen

Verkehr - Verkehrs- und Unfallstatistiken, Rahmenbedingungen
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Two things...one, I don't speak German (and neither does my iPad) and two, even if I did...I don't care NEARLY enough about this to wade through that morass you presented. I said studies...not bibles. I have a life, you know.

One major U.S. study from an unbiased source for each of my SPECIFIC above questions. Not your interpretation of them...my specific questions.

When you present that, I will look at them...if I feel like it.

Until then...good day.
 
The German said:
Enought!

You are obviously some 15 year old troll who sees his purpose here in annoying people.

You are incapable of participating in a debate in a civilised manner.

And you rephrase whatever I post and generaly seem to be incapable of answering questions.


There is no point whatsoever in having anykind of exchange of words with such an uncivilised savage.

Go play in the swamp.
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If there were ever a need to place restrictions on the post counts children can rack up per day, this is certainly it.
 
DA60 said:
Two things...one, I don't speak German (and neither does my iPad) and two, even if I did...I don't care NEARLY enough about this to wade through that morass you presented. I said studies...not bibles. I have a life, you know.

One major U.S. study from an unbiased source for each of my SPECIFIC above questions. Not your interpretation of them...my specific questions.

When you present that, I will look at them...if I feel like it.

Until then...good day.
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I can't help you with German but I can help your Ipad. Google Translate
 
DA60 said:
Two things...one, I don't speak German (and neither does my iPad) and two, even if I did...I don't care NEARLY enough about this to wade through that morass you presented. I said studies...not bibles. I have a life, you know.

One major U.S. study from an unbiased source for each of my SPECIFIC above questions. Not your interpretation of them...my specific questions.

When you present that, I will look at them...if I feel like it.

Until then...good day.
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If you are willing to debate the matter in a civilised way, I am willing to translate the statistics and try to find another german speaking member who you trust to confirm the correctness of the translation?

The ADAC is an unbiased organisation, it`s job is to ensure traffic safety.
 
Rocketman said:
hard crashes almost always result in internal injuries, spleens, collar bones, pelvic bones.
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"Hard crashes?" You mean the kind where you fly through windshields?
 
The German said:
If you are willing to debate the matter in a civilised way, I am willing to translate the statistics and try to find another german speaking member who you trust to confirm the correctness of the translation?

The ADAC is an unbiased organisation, it`s job is to ensure traffic safety.
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I am not willing to debate this at all...can you not read? I will make it clearer...

I DON'T CARE THAT MUCH ABOUT THIS.

I HAVE A LIFE.


I asked for two links to two U.S. studies. Not German. And I just want the conclusions. Not the 1,000 page report itself (though access to it would be nice if I chose to read part if it).

Do you have them? Yes or no?

If not...we are done until you do.
 
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This issue puts me in something of a quandary.

On the one hand I intensely resent the government telling me what to do. They do this way too often on way to many subjects that seriously are not their business.

On the other hand, I ALWAYS wear my seat belt, and precisely because I got in the habit when I lived in Germany for a couple years 30 years ago. They literally enforced it. I did it then because I had to... I ended up learning the wisdom of it... and it became second-nature to me to the point that now I feel naked if I don't wear a seat belt.

Hence, I wear a set belt by choice now. I feel that anybody who doesn't wear a seat belt is an idiot. Yet I still resent being told to.

:shrug:
 
DA60 said:
I am not willing to debate this at all...can you not read? I will make it clearer...

I DON'T CARE THAT MUCH ABOUT THIS.

I HAVE A LIFE.

DO YOU?
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A fine life indeed.

Do you have a personality?


I asked for two links to two U.S. studies. Not German.

Do you have them? Yes or no?
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No. I dont even know who keeps the records on car accidents in the US.

By the way:

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT WRITING IN BIG FAT LETTERS WILL MAKE YOU LOOK MORE SUFISTICATED DESPITE THE FACT THAT EVERYONE KNOWS IT TO SIMPLY CREATE THE IMPRESSION OF A DESPERATLY SCREAMING PERSON!

If not...we are done until you do.
 
The German said:
A fine life indeed.

Do you have a personality?




No. I dont even know who keeps the records on car accidents in the US.

By the way:

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT WRITING IN BIG FAT LETTERS WILL MAKE YOU LOOK MORE SUFISTICATED DESPITE THE FACT THAT EVERYONE KNOWS IT TO SIMPLY CREATE THE IMPRESSION OF A DESPERATLY SCREAMING PERSON!

If not...we are done until you do.
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Hey, I typed it nice and you missed it (or ignored it). I figured more drama was required. And it worked.

So, since you do not have those stats, we are done for now.

Good day.


Btw - a fine life? Trying to get into long, drawn out debates with nameless, faceless people on an online chat forum about some silly little subject like 'can un-seat belted human bodies fly out of cars in accidents with lethal force? Lol.

That is your idea of how to spend a 'fine life'?

Whatever pal...not to me though.


Once again, good day.
 
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radcen said:
This issue puts me in something of a quandary.

On the one hand I intensely resent the government telling me what to do. They do this way too often on way to many subjects that seriously are not their business.

On the other hand, I ALWAYS wear my seat belt, and precisely because I got in the habit when I lived in Germany for a couple years 30 years ago. They literally enforced it. I did it then because I had to... I ended up learning the wisdom of it... and it became second-nature to me to the point that now I feel naked if I don't wear a seat belt.

Hence, I wear a set belt by choice now. I feel that anybody who doesn't wear a seat belt is an idiot. Yet I still resent being told to.

:shrug:
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Do you resent the government saying you can't drive on sidewalks too?
 
Cardinal said:
Do you resent the government saying you can't drive on sidewalks too?
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Do you not comprehend the difference between endangering oneself vs endangering others?

Most people grasp the difference pretty easily. Or, are you simply being mindlessly argumentative to amuse yourself?
 
radcen said:
Do you not comprehend the difference between endangering oneself vs endangering others?

Most people grasp the difference pretty easily. Or, are you simply being mindlessly argumentative to amuse yourself?
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Actually it's you who I suspect cannot tell the difference, or are simply unaware of where the endangering others aspect exists. Let me explain the difference, both for you and to demonstrate that I do, in fact, know the difference.

Example 1) Idiot gets into car and doesn't put on seatbelt and goes for a fast drive in the middle of an uninhabited desert. Swerves, loses control, crashes into big cactus and explodes in Michael Bay-style explosion.
Conclusion: Endangers self.
Example 2) Idiot gets into car and doesn't put on seatbelt. Drives through intersection and sees a car driving against the red light, so puts on the brakes and throws the steering wheel to one direction, thus due to inertia, momentum and centripetal force is temporarily thrown out of control. As a result his own car hits a pedestrian and/or other car.
Conclusion: endangers self AND others (the important bit being "others").

Clear?
 
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Cardinal said:
Actually it's you who I suspect cannot tell the difference, or are simply unaware of where the endangering others aspect exists. Let me explain the difference, both for you and to demonstrate that I do, in fact, know the difference.

Example 1) Idiot gets into car and doesn't put on seatbelt and goes for a fast drive in the middle of an uninhabited desert. Swerves, loses control, crashes into big cactus and explodes in Michael Bay-style explosion.
Conclusion: Endangers self.
Example 2) Idiot gets into car and doesn't put on seatbelt. Drives through intersection and sees a car driving against the red light, so puts on the brakes and throws the steering wheel to one direction, thus due to inertia, momentum and centripetal force is temporarily thrown out of control. As a result his own car hits a pedestrian and/or other car.
Conclusion: endangers self AND others (the important bit being "others").

Clear?
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Yes. You're just being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative. Carry on. :)
 
radcen said:
Yes. You're just being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative. Carry on. :)
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Nonresponsive. I'm fairly familiar with your posting history on this forum and have come to expect far, far better of you than this petty evasiveness.
 
I was hit by a stolen car ( broadsided) at a stop light; I was in the intersection, and the guy in front of me stopped when he heard the police sirens,
the guy behind me pinned me in with nowhere to go.

I saw this car barreling at my drivers side ( I was the driver), found out later he was doing 80 mph.
I just had time to scramble over the middle drive train and rolled into the passenger floor compartment.

Next thing was a tremendous crash that literally bent my car in 1/2. I had bruises all down my side, but no broken bones. If I had stayed in the drivers side, I would have been dead.
The car was bent in the shape of a boomerang - it made the nighty news.

There are a lot of shallow lakes near me, and people drive into them, and drown quite regularly. They panic, and get entangled in their belts.

Point being: let me decide when to strap in - I do on any road where i'm doing 40 mph or more, not so much on surface streets
I want to be able to move, or get out quickly, depending on what is happening.
 
annata said:
I was hit by a stolen car ( broadsided) at a stop light; I was in the intersection, and the guy in front of me stopped when he heard the police sirens,
the guy behind me pinned me in with nowhere to go.

I saw this car barreling at my drivers side ( I was the driver), found out later he was doing 80 mph.
I just had time to scramble over the middle drive train and rolled into the passenger floor compartment.

Next thing was a tremendous crash that literally bent my car in 1/2. I had bruises all down my side, but no broken bones. If I had stayed in the drivers side, I would have been dead.
The car was bent in the shape of a boomerang - it made the nighty news.

There are a lot of shallow lakes near me, and people drive into them, and drown quite regularly. They panic, and get entangled in their belts.

Point being: let me decide when to strap in - I do on any road where i'm doing 40 mph or more, not so much on surface streets
I want to be able to move, or get out quickly, depending on what is happening.
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What you describe is an aberration. Seat belts were never meant, nor could they ever be, a perfect solution. No safety measure can ever be 100%. They merely (greatly) increase the odds that you will survive a crash. If you let this single positive-ending incident dictate your decision, you are a fool.
 
JayDubya said:
One of the stupidest, least enforceable, senseless laws on the books.

Not wearing your seatbelt is an action without a victim. You may, potentially, hurt yourself by choosing to not wear it.

That is, quite simply, not an adequate basis for the usage of the state's coercive force.
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You may potentially hurt not only yourself, but others in the car with you and others on the road should you be ejected from your vehicle.

And since we started ticketing people for not wearing their seat belts, many more people wear them. They are completely enforceable laws.
 
radcen said:
What you describe is an aberration. Seat belts were never meant, nor could they ever be, a perfect solution. No safety measure can ever be 100%. They merely (greatly) increase the odds that you will survive a crash. If you let this single positive-ending incident dictate your decision, you are a fool.
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The "a seatbelt almost cost me my life" stories always make me think about a tragedy that happened while I was living in Raleigh. This mother and her two under school age children ended up stopped on some train tracks in her SUV. The train came before the light turned. So for whatever reason, the mother instead of moving the SUV, climbed into the back to get her kids out of their car seats. I think someone else tried to help her when they realized what she was doing. She did not succeed. Such an accident does not prompt an immediate end to child safety seats. Plus, how many of those who have such stories as their reasoning, would keep their children unbuckled for that reasoning? After all, an unbuckled child is much easier for parents to grab out of the backseat during an accident and possibly save from injury, than a buckled one.
 
radcen said:
Do you not comprehend the difference between endangering oneself vs endangering others?

Most people grasp the difference pretty easily. Or, are you simply being mindlessly argumentative to amuse yourself?
Click to expand...

You do endanger others though by not wearing a seatbelt. This is especially true if there is anyone in the car with you. But even by yourself, you take the chance of becoming a human projectile and striking others or them running you over (which is bound to cause some serious psychological damage to most people) should you be ejected from your vehicle because you did not wear your seatbelt.
 
Grim17 said:
This question applies to legal adults only, not children:

Do you believe in seat belt laws?

a) Yes. They are nessisary to protect the public for their own good.
b) No. I'm a consenting adult and shouldn't have to wear one if I don't want to.


Discuss...
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driving is a privilege. and if you don't wear a seat belt, you can impose costs on others-be it your long term care or the trauma that comes from having your ejected body slamming into their windshield. I am alive today because I always wear a seatbelt-freezing rain froze on contact with extremely cold pavement in 1983. Roadway Truck jackknifed in front of me swinging the trailer into my lane. 60-0 in .1 seconds. all four tires blew due to the impact. only damage-my girlfriend's right breast was a bruised pretty badly from the shoulder strap.
 
TurtleDude said:
driving is a privilege. and if you don't wear a seat belt, you can impose costs on others-be it your long term care or the trauma that comes from having your ejected body slamming into their windshield. I am alive today because I always wear a seatbelt-freezing rain froze on contact with extremely cold pavement in 1983. Roadway Truck jackknifed in front of me swinging the trailer into my lane. 60-0 in .1 seconds. all four tires blew due to the impact. only damage-my girlfriend's right breast was a bruised pretty badly from the shoulder strap.
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I am all for people wearing their seat belts, as I wear them myself... I just don't think that the government should mandate it.
 
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