View Poll Results: Do you believe in seat belt laws?

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  • Yes

    74 62.18%
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Thread: Do you believe in seat belt laws for consenting adults?

  1. #521
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    Re: Do you believe in seat belt laws for consenting adults?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    So you aren't aware of the safety reforms the NFL is facing? They're seriously going to start putting impact censors in the helmets and when a player takes a cretin amount of impact they will be pulled. There's all kinds of **** coming down the line.
    So is that the NFL's doing or and mandate from Congress? If it's not law then you can't compare what they are doing. My comparison is that if we are trying to reduce injuries through mandates then these other activities need legal mandates as well, but no one calls for them. There is a major difference between a mandate that seeks to reduce injuries of the other due to the choices of the one and and a mandate that seeks to reduce injuries to the one due to the choices of the one.

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    Did I? because your drama was pointed at me.

    I just said it was a two for the price of one. My opinion. Does it take away from yours?
    Jerry pulled the same thing too. I find it completely dishonest when I say "seat belt laws are ok because they reduce injury to others, but helmet laws are not because others don't come into play." and my reasoning is countered (which in and of itself isn't bad) and then that counter is used to say "and that's why we need seat belt laws".

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    That's a pretty dishonest point. Seat belt laws help save the individual as do helmet laws.
    How is that dishonest? At no point have I noted that neither one save individuals. I am one who believe in the consequences of one's actions to one's self, but not to others, if it can be helped. If you ride a motorcycle with your helmet off you risk only yourself, because your lack of helmet will not affect you ability to control or regain control of the bike in an accident. If you drive with your seat belt off, you increase the risk to others outside your vehicle because you have a higher chance of being thrown out of the driver's seat (whether you remain in the vehicle or not is irrelevant) and thus a lower chance of being able to control or regain control of the vehicle. This puts more people outside the car at risk. How is it dishonest to note the different principles in these two scenarios?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Why not? We remove freedoms for no other purpose than what some people believe is "improper behavior". At least with laws that save a substantial amount of money without a major loss of freedom everyone benefits, not just the prudes and church goers.
    And how many of those "improper behavior" laws are getting challenged and removed. Quite a few, although there are more to go. You don't impose laws that remove or restrict freedom without showing harm to others.

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    The public has agreed as a whole (based on years of testing and evidence) that these features are beneficial, and have chosen to promote their common use through appropriate laws. Insurance companies have promoted their use through reduced insurance premiums.
    When it comes to helmet laws and the like I agree with the latter method but not the first. Also do not mistake my views on what should be law with my views on what people should be doing. I fully believe that both seat belts and helmets should be worn. I wear mine even simply on my scooter and did so before it was law. There are many things that I believe that people should be doing to make this world a better place, I just don't believe that law is the way to do it in some cases.
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  2. #522
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    Re: Do you believe in seat belt laws for consenting adults?

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    How is that dishonest? At no point have I noted that neither one save individuals. I am one who believe in the consequences of one's actions to one's self, but not to others, if it can be helped. If you ride a motorcycle with your helmet off you risk only yourself, because your lack of helmet will not affect you ability to control or regain control of the bike in an accident. If you drive with your seat belt off, you increase the risk to others outside your vehicle because you have a higher chance of being thrown out of the driver's seat (whether you remain in the vehicle or not is irrelevant) and thus a lower chance of being able to control or regain control of the vehicle. This puts more people outside the car at risk. How is it dishonest to note the different principles in these two scenarios?
    That's ridiculous. If you are driving so fast that a selt belt needs to keep you from flying out of your seat, an air bag will be deployed so the driver CANNOT gain control of the car once safety belts have tightened due to significant jarring. Be honest and admit that seatbelts are put into place for the safety of the indivual and not to save others from an accident. There's nothing worse than a dishonest discussion.

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    Re: Do you believe in seat belt laws for consenting adults?

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    That's ridiculous. If you are driving so fast that a selt belt needs to keep you from flying out of your seat, an air bag will be deployed so the driver CANNOT gain control of the car once safety belts have tightened due to significant jarring. Be honest and admit that seatbelts are put into place for the safety of the indivual and not to save others from an accident. There's nothing worse than a dishonest discussion.
    And what happens if/when the airbag fails? There is no dishonestly here save maybe you not wanting to hear my logic. If it were only about personal safety then I would be against the seat belt law, as I think that a failure to use such safety devices should result in the individual paying for the consequences of their actions. I'm also all for an insurance company being allowed to say that the failure of the individual to use the provided safety device means they are not responsible for paying for those bills. At no point am I denying that seat belts provide safety for the user. I am only saying that, that in and of it self is not sufficient to force the use of seat belts on adults. It is the simple fact that, in addition to the safety provided to the individual, the use of seat belts increases the odds of the driver control, thus lowering potential harm to others.
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    Re: Do you believe in seat belt laws for consenting adults?

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    And what happens if/when the airbag fails? There is no dishonestly here save maybe you not wanting to hear my logic. If it were only about personal safety then I would be against the seat belt law, as I think that a failure to use such safety devices should result in the individual paying for the consequences of their actions. I'm also all for an insurance company being allowed to say that the failure of the individual to use the provided safety device means they are not responsible for paying for those bills. At no point am I denying that seat belts provide safety for the user. I am only saying that, that in and of it self is not sufficient to force the use of seat belts on adults. It is the simple fact that, in addition to the safety provided to the individual, the use of seat belts increases the odds of the driver control, thus lowering potential harm to others.
    I'd like to see some proof seat belts allow the driver to maintain control of a car. Speed can be a determining factor and a seat belt can help the driver from getting severely hurt if they lose control but a seat belt does not allow a driver to maintain control of a car that is headed for an accident.

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    Re: Do you believe in seat belt laws for consenting adults?

    After buying crashed cars for years and seeing blood and hair on the windshield where the people were obviously not wearing the belt, I would never move a car with out one.

    I do beleive the seat belt laws should be enforced. It is for the good of everybody.

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    Re: Do you believe in seat belt laws for consenting adults?

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    That's ridiculous. If you are driving so fast that a selt belt needs to keep you from flying out of your seat, an air bag will be deployed so the driver CANNOT gain control of the car once safety belts have tightened due to significant jarring. Be honest and admit that seatbelts are put into place for the safety of the indivual and not to save others from an accident. There's nothing worse than a dishonest discussion.
    What??? Regardless of how violent the jarring of the car, the airbag will not deploy. The seatbelt keeps a driver in the drivers seat, behind the wheel, where he is more able to respond to the emergency.


    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    I'd like to see some proof seat belts allow the driver to maintain control of a car. Speed can be a determining factor and a seat belt can help the driver from getting severely hurt if they lose control but a seat belt does not allow a driver to maintain control of a car that is headed for an accident.
    Since you seem to have never been in that situation, all it takes is a bit of reasoning. If the driver's ass is sliding across the seat, instead of firmly planted behind the wheel, and his feet are nowhere near the pedals, then he obviously will have difficulty controlling the car. He'll be hanging onto the steering wheel, trying to use it to keep himself from sliding around, and his feet will be trying to find a purchase to steady his motion, instead of steering to control how the wheels are pointed and being able to use the brake or gas pedal.

    Yes, believe it or not, if you keep your cool and can point the wheels & apply the brake/gas as needed you can, indeed, come out of a skid and do many other things to avoid an accident or lessen the impact of one.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 02-07-14 at 08:34 AM.
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    Re: Do you believe in seat belt laws for consenting adults?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    What??? Regardless of how violent the jarring of the car, the airbag will not deploy. The seatbelt keeps a driver in the drivers seat, behind the wheel, where he is more able to respond to the emergency.

    Since you seem to have never been in that situation, all it takes is a bit of reasoning. If the driver's ass is sliding across the seat, instead of firmly planted behind the wheel, and his feet are nowhere near the pedals, then he obviously will have difficulty controlling the car. He'll be hanging onto the steering wheel, trying to use it to keep himself from sliding around, and his feet will be trying to find a purchase to steady his motion, instead of steering to control how the wheels are pointed and being able to use the brake or gas pedal.

    Yes, believe it or not, if you keep your cool and can point the wheels & apply the brake/gas as needed you can, indeed, come out of a skid and do many other things to avoid an accident or lessen the impact of one.
    There are numerous videos on YouTube about what happens to people when they aren't wearing a seatbelt. This reminds me of one of those which looks like it came from one of the bait car cams (view was about middle of the dash, near stereo/air controls, looking back into car, able to see most of the interior of the car), and the driver hits something and ends up in the back, after being thrown around a bit, behind the passenger seat, folded up. It looked like he was in some pain. And there was no one behind the wheel then, since he was the only one in the car.
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    Re: Do you believe in seat belt laws for consenting adults?

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    I'd like to see some proof seat belts allow the driver to maintain control of a car. Speed can be a determining factor and a seat belt can help the driver from getting severely hurt if they lose control but a seat belt does not allow a driver to maintain control of a car that is headed for an accident.
    Please note that I said it increased the odds, not guarenteed that they could. If they are not wearing the seat belt they have a higher probability of either being thrown out of the seat completely (whether ejected from the vehicle or not) as well as a higher probability of injury that will make them unable to control/regain control of the vehicle. It also of course depends upon the type of accident/loss of control that occurs.
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    Re: Do you believe in seat belt laws for consenting adults?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    What??? Regardless of how violent the jarring of the car, the airbag will not deploy. The seatbelt keeps a driver in the drivers seat, behind the wheel, where he is more able to respond to the emergency.


    Since you seem to have never been in that situation, all it takes is a bit of reasoning. If the driver's ass is sliding across the seat, instead of firmly planted behind the wheel, and his feet are nowhere near the pedals, then he obviously will have difficulty controlling the car. He'll be hanging onto the steering wheel, trying to use it to keep himself from sliding around, and his feet will be trying to find a purchase to steady his motion, instead of steering to control how the wheels are pointed and being able to use the brake or gas pedal.

    Yes, believe it or not, if you keep your cool and can point the wheels & apply the brake/gas as needed you can, indeed, come out of a skid and do many other things to avoid an accident or lessen the impact of one.
    If a person is driving so fast that a seat belt must hold him secure in his seat, it is the speed that is the factor and not the seat belt. Perhaps, the seat belt could increase his odds of staying alive but the DA could still cause an accident if he/she is driving that fast. Now if a person loses control of the car because he spins on ice (let's say) and the belt keeps him in his seat, other cars can still get into an accident due to the spinning of the car. The seat belt may help all these drivers that got involved in this accident walk away but the seat belt does not prevent such loss of control.

    Let' be honest. Seat belts may save the driver and/or passengers from severe injury or death. Anything else is hype like seat belts preventing flying bodies from hitting others or speeding cars that lose control that suddenly can maintain control. The out of norm stuff mentioned is NOT the reason we have seat belt laws.

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    Re: Do you believe in seat belt laws for consenting adults?

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    If a person is driving so fast that a seat belt must hold him secure in his seat, it is the speed that is the factor and not the seat belt. Perhaps, the seat belt could increase his odds of staying alive but the DA could still cause an accident if he/she is driving that fast. Now if a person loses control of the car because he spins on ice (let's say) and the belt keeps him in his seat, other cars can still get into an accident due to the spinning of the car. The seat belt may help all these drivers that got involved in this accident walk away but the seat belt does not prevent such loss of control.

    Let' be honest. Seat belts may save the driver and/or passengers from severe injury or death. Anything else is hype like seat belts preventing flying bodies from hitting others or speeding cars that lose control that suddenly can maintain control. The out of norm stuff mentioned is NOT the reason we have seat belt laws.
    I could see a seatbelt helping a person regain control of a car if said seatbelt was a 4-point harness or some such and kept them from being thrown off balance when the car spun, so they had the leverage to regain control.

    But I'm not sure a normal seat belt would help much.
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