View Poll Results: Do you believe in seat belt laws?

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  • Yes

    74 62.18%
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    45 37.82%
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Thread: Do you believe in seat belt laws for consenting adults?

  1. #421
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    Re: Do you believe in seat belt laws for consenting adults?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I'm not buying the "human projectile" thing too much because really anything is going to become a projectile during an accident, anything in the vehicle or on the vehicle has that potential, so that's a lame reason for forcing adults to wear seat belts IMO.
    *sigh*......then please don't use a seat belt.....it's that simple.

    There's laws against speeding. People go over the speed limit all the time. You gonna rail on about the "retardedness" of speed limits?

    Oh wait, that's right....everybody here (except one I think) agrees that wearing a seat belt is a smart thing to do and that they wear them all the time.

    Really is a weird thread.

  2. #422
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    Re: Do you believe in seat belt laws for consenting adults?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    *sigh*......then please don't use a seat belt.....it's that simple.

    There's laws against speeding. People go over the speed limit all the time. You gonna rail on about the "retardedness" of speed limits?

    Oh wait, that's right....everybody here (except one I think) agrees that wearing a seat belt is a smart thing to do and that they wear them all the time.

    Really is a weird thread.
    I never said it wasn't a good idea to wear seat belts. I said we don't need MORE unenforceable laws to apply to adults who can make their OWN decisions about such things, regardless of whether YOU like it or not.

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    Re: Do you believe in seat belt laws for consenting adults?

    AND, as I noted earlier. Mandating people to wear seat belts only increased seat belt use by about 10%. This is just ANOTHER way for the government to take our money.

  4. #424
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    Re: Do you believe in seat belt laws for consenting adults?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    There's laws against speeding. People go over the speed limit all the time. You gonna rail on about the "retardedness" of speed limits?
    Well yes - speed limits are pretty retarded and those laws are frequently exploited to set up revenue for local police by placing a decreased speed limit on the bottom of a hill and other such shenanigans.

    Remember - you are always liable for any harm you do.

    If your body is launched out of the vehicle your car is an immobile piece of slag and your ass is in the hospital anyway, or the morgue - I doubt many $100 citations are send to the family to give to the driver if they wake up.

    If you hit a pedestrian because you're going too fast, there are serious criminal charges for that kind of negligence. And so on...
    Last edited by JayDubya; 02-02-14 at 09:19 AM.

  5. #425
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    Re: Do you believe in seat belt laws for consenting adults?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Are you serious? During an accident pieces of the CAR can become projectiles as can tires and hubcabs and other pieces of the vehicle. You people just want to make more and more unenforceable retarded laws, while coming up with all kinds of ridiculous scenarios.
    Which is something that cannot be helped in most cases. Where it can be prevented or the possibility of those things becoming projectiles, we design cars so to do it. We control what we can. We know that we can greatly reduce the chance of people who are in the car of becoming projectiles though, and that is through the use of seatbelts.

    And these aren't ridiculous scenarios. About 25% or more of those killed in car accidents were ejected from their cars, the vast majority of those because they didn't wear their seatbelts. There are easily found videos online of people being ejected from their vehicles while on busy freeways/highways, and then being run over by other cars, some even on the other side of the divide. Do you want to be that person that runs over the guy/gal that wasn't buckled in?

    Seatbelt laws are just as enforceable as speed limit laws or child restraint laws or DUI laws or texting while driving laws.
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  6. #426
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    Re: Do you believe in seat belt laws for consenting adults?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    AND, as I noted earlier. Mandating people to wear seat belts only increased seat belt use by about 10%. This is just ANOTHER way for the government to take our money.
    Still an increase in usage of seatbelts, which means more lives saved, less people ejected from cars or killing/injuring the others in the vehicles because they weren't wearing a seatbelt. Plus, it increases more when the laws are primary enforcement, rather than just secondary enforcement.

    Primary Enforcement of Seat Belt Use Laws Saves Lives and Reduces Injuries | National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA)

    Heck since most states have secondary seatbelt enforcement laws (meaning a person cannot be pulled over to be cited solely for not wearing their seatbelt), it means that most people who get cited for not wearing a seatbelt were doing something else to get pulled over for as well. If the state wants to make money, it doesn't really need seatbelt laws. People do enough stupid stuff on the roads that is illegal and ticketable.

    And seatbelt usage has went up far more than just 10%. Since the early 90s, when the first seatbelt laws really started being enforced, seatbelt usage has gone up almost 20%-25%.

    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...60444564,d.aWM

    Maybe its because my home state was the first one to actually implement the Click It or Ticket program, so I grew up with it, but I simply don't see the issue with telling people that they will be ticketed for not buckling up in a car.
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  7. #427
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    Re: Do you believe in seat belt laws for consenting adults?

    Only one state in the US does not have mandatory seat belt laws for adults. Most states have primary seat belt laws. Like I mentioned in another post, Maine has one of the most severe punishments for adults and they still buckle up less than Nevada that has secondary seat belt laws. Maine also does the click it or ticket program nearly every Fourth of July which causes massive traffic backups. They do make good revenue from it, especially from people that are from NH is my guess. Personally, this makes me think it has more to do with revenue than a person's chances of running over a body that may be ejected from a car. Naturally, this is a bogus argument saying, "Motorcyclists are 35 times more likely to experience a deadly accident on the road than those in passenger cars". Motorcycle Accident Statistics and Possible Causes - MotorcycleAccident.org. Yet, they are not outlawed because motorist fear ejecting bodies flying around the highway. If we are so concerned about health costs, why don't we mandate people only being allowed to buy a certain amount of high fatty foods each time they shop? It could be done. People would have to use electronic cards. All food could be coded using special bars that read caloric intake to fat grams. You go over the limit, you can't buy it! After all, it is heart disease that is the number one killer in the US. If we really wanted those seat belt laws to work, the punishment needs to be upped. Instead of a Maine charging $300.00 for the third time offense, maybe the first. If that doesn't work, jail time. That will teach them. It's one thing to mandate laws for public safety and an entirely different thing to mandate individual safety laws. People should be dumb enough or smart enough to think for themselves as long as they are not a safety hazard to others.

  8. #428
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    Re: Do you believe in seat belt laws for consenting adults?

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    Only one state in the US does not have mandatory seat belt laws for adults. Most states have primary seat belt laws. Like I mentioned in another post, Maine has one of the most severe punishments for adults and they still buckle up less than Nevada that has secondary seat belt laws. Maine also does the click it or ticket program nearly every Fourth of July which causes massive traffic backups. They do make good revenue from it, especially from people that are from NH is my guess. Personally, this makes me think it has more to do with revenue than a person's chances of running over a body that may be ejected from a car. Naturally, this is a bogus argument saying, "Motorcyclists are 35 times more likely to experience a deadly accident on the road than those in passenger cars". Motorcycle Accident Statistics and Possible Causes - MotorcycleAccident.org. Yet, they are not outlawed because motorist fear ejecting bodies flying around the highway. If we are so concerned about health costs, why don't we mandate people only being allowed to buy a certain amount of high fatty foods each time they shop? It could be done. People would have to use electronic cards. All food could be coded using special bars that read caloric intake to fat grams. You go over the limit, you can't buy it! After all, it is heart disease that is the number one killer in the US. If we really wanted those seat belt laws to work, the punishment needs to be upped. Instead of a Maine charging $300.00 for the third time offense, maybe the first. If that doesn't work, jail time. That will teach them. It's one thing to mandate laws for public safety and an entirely different thing to mandate individual safety laws. People should be dumb enough or smart enough to think for themselves as long as they are not a safety hazard to others.
    Primary for front seat, not the back seat. So many states have a mix of primary and secondary seat belt laws for adults.

    But most things are about a cost/benefit analysis. Motorcyclists have to be specifically licensed to ride a motorcycle. The chances of someone being in a motorcycle accident are high, but motorcyclists also provide other benefits to society (although this is rarely looked at). Plus, given that few ride motorcycles compared to those who ride in cars, the overall number of people ejected from cars is likely higher than those who are thrown from their motorcycles. Plus, restricting motorcycling completely is a major freedom reducer, whereas, enforcing seatbelt laws is no more a reduction in freedom than enforcing child safety seat laws, texting while driving laws, open container laws, or other such vehicle related laws.

    It is all about reducing incidents, not eliminating all threats, all situations.
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  9. #429
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    Re: Do you believe in seat belt laws for consenting adults?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Primary for front seat, not the back seat. So many states have a mix of primary and secondary seat belt laws for adults.

    But most things are about a cost/benefit analysis. Motorcyclists have to be specifically licensed to ride a motorcycle. The chances of someone being in a motorcycle accident are high, but motorcyclists also provide other benefits to society (although this is rarely looked at). Plus, given that few ride motorcycles compared to those who ride in cars, the overall number of people ejected from cars is likely higher than those who are thrown from their motorcycles. Plus, restricting motorcycling completely is a major freedom reducer, whereas, enforcing seatbelt laws is no more a reduction in freedom than enforcing child safety seat laws, texting while driving laws, open container laws, or other such vehicle related laws.

    It is all about reducing incidents, not eliminating all threats, all situations.
    I'm all for strict laws against drinking/driving/open container and cell phone usage while driving. I also believe in stiff penalties against minors not being buckled. Those are public safety hazards. I'm fine with the laws they have on the books for seat belts now. Yes, there are still places like Maine that still are rebellious against the law but they will have to just believe the punishment is worth the crime of choosing not to put their seat belt on. True the likelihood of more accidents is with a car since it is used more frequently. I'm unsure about the flying body argument. If you think there are high statistics of bodies flying around from cars/vs motorcycles I'd like to see them. The fact is it is more likely for a deadly accident to be the result of motorcycle accident. Yet, we still allow people to take that risk. Same goes for any individual risk we take on a daily basis. There are all sorts of things we can do to prevent those risks (like heart disease, cancer) but should we have mandated laws to protect us from such choices?

  10. #430
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    Re: Do you believe in seat belt laws for consenting adults?

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    I'm all for strict laws against drinking/driving/open container and cell phone usage while driving. I also believe in stiff penalties against minors not being buckled. Those are public safety hazards. I'm fine with the laws they have on the books for seat belts now. Yes, there are still places like Maine that still are rebellious against the law but they will have to just believe the punishment is worth the crime of choosing not to put their seat belt on. True the likelihood of more accidents is with a car since it is used more frequently. I'm unsure about the flying body argument. If you think there are high statistics of bodies flying around from cars/vs motorcycles I'd like to see them. The fact is it is more likely for a deadly accident to be the result of motorcycle accident. Yet, we still allow people to take that risk. Same goes for any individual risk we take on a daily basis. There are all sorts of things we can do to prevent those risks (like heart disease, cancer) but should we have mandated laws to protect us from such choices?
    We already have mandated laws to protect us from people who make the choice to rob, murder and rape.

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