View Poll Results: Do you believe in seat belt laws?

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  • Yes

    74 62.18%
  • No

    45 37.82%
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Thread: Do you believe in seat belt laws for consenting adults?

  1. #371
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    Re: Do you believe in seat belt laws for consenting adults?

    I'm a little skeptical about the safety issue thing as riding a motorcycle puts a person at increase risks for getting into a serious accident:

    The Facts
    According to the U.S. Department of Transportationís National Highway Traffic Safety Administration:

    Motorcyclists are 35 times more likely to experience a deadly accident on the road than those in passenger cars. Motorcycle Accident Statistics and Possible Causes - MotorcycleAccident.org

    So, basically, if it was just a safety issue, motorcycles would be out lawed. So, rather than out lawing motorcycles, people should be educated on the risks and let them decide. Same goes with seat belts for adults. Maine has one of the most expensive/severe consequences for not wearing seat belts (third offense costs as much as $300.00) yet, they wear their seat belts less than some states like Nevada that have more lenient secondary laws. What should they do next? Jail time?

    Besides, I believe things like cell phones are more dangerous to other people than a person choosing not to wear their seat belt. Just the facts.

  2. #372
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    Re: Do you believe in seat belt laws for consenting adults?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    It's not that we can't, but that we don't find "safety" arguments worth considering.
    There are certain people who don't find "personal property" arguments worth considering either. Laws are made because of people like them too.

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    Re: Do you believe in seat belt laws for consenting adults?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    There are certain people who don't find "personal property" arguments worth considering either. Laws are made because of people like them too.
    If the government has the duty to keep us safe then you have to ask yourself where you limit this duty, and of course, you can't do that because there is no logical way to do so. You're just left being subjective and selective in your reasoning and looking foolish as a result.

  4. #374
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    Re: Do you believe in seat belt laws for consenting adults?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    If the government has the duty to keep us safe then you have to ask yourself where you limit this duty, and of course, you can't do that because there is no logical way to do so.
    One of the government's primary duties is to keep its citizens safe from people who have no regard for the safety or property of others. I'm not going to accept disbanding that duty, especially as it's been demonstrated in this thread that there are people who are only able to see the seat belt discussion in terms of their own freedom and not the safety of others. Government would be delinquent in their duties if it didn't curtail people like that.

  5. #375
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    Re: Do you believe in seat belt laws for consenting adults?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    One of the government's primary duties is to keep its citizens safe from people who have no regard for the safety or property of others.
    That is not he issue here, as you have already agreed to.

  6. #376
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    Re: Do you believe in seat belt laws for consenting adults?

    Quote Originally Posted by avatar View Post
    I wouldn't mind people not wearing seatbelts if there were a guarantee that they would not become a burden on me or others after they crash. Included in that burden would be any increase in my insurance costs because the pool has to support vegetables.
    While I agree with your sentiments, I'm guessing most people ejected from their vehicles ( i.e. not wearing seatbelts) die at the accident scene.
    DOA's probably save money.
    No matter how cynical I become toward politicians, it's never enough.

  7. #377
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    Re: Do you believe in seat belt laws for consenting adults?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    One of the government's primary duties is to keep its citizens safe from people who have no regard for the safety or property of others. I'm not going to accept disbanding that duty, especially as it's been demonstrated in this thread that there are people who are only able to see the seat belt discussion in terms of their own freedom and not the safety of others. Government would be delinquent in their duties if it didn't curtail people like that.
    You haven't told me the limits of your argument. The problem with your argument, of all safety duty arguments, is that once someone is sworn to protect you the limits are only controlled by their own self control. If that person has no sense of control that could very well lead to some pretty disastrous ends.

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    Re: Do you believe in seat belt laws for consenting adults?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    You haven't told me the limits of your argument. The problem with your argument, of all safety duty arguments, is that once someone is sworn to protect you the limits are only controlled by their own self control. If that person has no sense of control that could very well lead to some pretty disastrous ends.
    I'm not interested in the philosophical ramifications of enforcing seatbelt use. All I'm interested in is a)people who don't wear their seat belts are more likely to be less in control of their vehicles and therefore risk endangering others, and b)oh, there is no b. Just a.
    Last edited by Cardinal; 02-01-14 at 04:33 PM.

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    Re: Do you believe in seat belt laws for consenting adults?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    I'm not interested in the philosophical or legal ramifications of enforcing seatbelt use. All I'm interested in is a)people who don't wear their seat belts are more likely to be less in control of their vehicles and therefore risk endangering others, and b)oh, there is no b. Just a.
    Yes, I realize that, but you should be interested in the ramifications of your logic. You may not like it but when you have an argument you should define it clearly and make sure you limit it's reach or you could very well find the government acting on something you didn't expect all because someone else is following your argument to it's logical ends. Arguments need definition, and topics can not be treated independently of each other. They interconnect and affect each other, and once an open ended concept gets thrown into the mix it will only expand to affect everyone around it until it engulfs all. Your safety argument has already done this and it has already been shown without a shadow of a doubt as unwise. There is no reason to humor it unless you desire to limit it's reach or else all we are talking about is a police state, and at the moment, we already have one those we need to get rid of.

  10. #380
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    Re: Do you believe in seat belt laws for consenting adults?

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    The truth is they do not (obviously).
    Once the computer chips are installed it won't be a problem.
    Trump Attacked A Syrian Airfield. Trump will be a one-term president.

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